EOS-M - Preorder Checklist

Gregg.Siam wrote in post #14756200
no thanks

no matter how you cut it, mirrorless cameras are a poor platform. By platform, I mean how you hold it and everything that mounts to it. Sure, with a pancake lens it's nice, but put anything bigger and it starts to have issues on how you hold it. Mounting a EF or EF-S lens is a joke. Start to add a tele and a flash and see how you like to hold it. People complain about holding a XXXD body, how do you think this will be?

Honestly, there's no mirrorless system including Leica that I would buy into. No pentaprism viewfinder, poor ergonomics, composition issues, no longer "pocketable", and a host of inherent problems with the platform itself. By the time you add all the good stuff, you have a small DSLR, and still have inherent problems.

I think I am slowly realizing this. Been very interested in m43 especially the Olympus, but a second camera that isn't pocketable.... what's the point? If I'm taking my messenger bag to carry a camera anyhow, might as well shoot with the best one I have. I know there is a weight argument, but I can deal with less than 2kg of gear no problems.

I am somewhat disappointed with the body. I was hoping it would be something retro like an A1 or AE1 with a viewfinder. This just looks too much like any other P&S camera.
I do have a silly question regarding the sensor. It being readily exposed as it is, won't that lead to a dirty or damaged sensor that much quicker?

I think I will stick with my Sony Nex 7 for now.

Gregg.Siam wrote in post #14756200
no thanks

no matter how you cut it, mirrorless cameras are a poor platform. By platform, I mean how you hold it and everything that mounts to it. Sure, with a pancake lens it's nice, but put anything bigger and it starts to have issues on how you hold it. Mounting a EF or EF-S lens is a joke. Start to add a tele and a flash and see how you like to hold it. People complain about holding a XXXD body, how do you think this will be?

Honestly, there's no mirrorless system including Leica that I would buy into. No pentaprism viewfinder, poor ergonomics, composition issues, no longer "pocketable", and a host of inherent problems with the platform itself. By the time you add all the good stuff, you have a small DSLR, and still have inherent problems.

Good thing we're all different then, eh? I find no problem with any of your supposed problems.

The best EVFs are quite good these days and in some situations better than OVFs.

Some mirrorless have poor ergonomics, but this is by no means a universal fault.

Composition issues? Not even sure what that means. More like composition benefits as you can use an EVF or a tilting/articulating screen as desired on some of these cameras. The VF zealots might be surprised if they ever bothered to try composing on a tilting/articulating screen. I used to be one myself but removing the composing device from my face has opened up a world of possibilities.

As for the "pocketable" point, some people just want a smaller and lighter kit, not something pocketable. No problem then.

So yeah with the best mirrorless systems you can have a small DSLR and small lenses with none of the problems of DSLRs

Yohan Pamudji wrote in post #14759645
Good thing we're all different then, eh? I find no problem with any of your supposed problems.

The best EVFs are quite good these days and in some situations better than OVFs.

Some mirrorless have poor ergonomics, but this is by no means a universal fault.

Composition issues? Not even sure what that means. More like composition benefits as you can use an EVF or a tilting/articulating screen as desired on some of these cameras. The VF zealots might be surprised if they ever bothered to try composing on a tilting/articulating screen. I used to be one myself but removing the composing device from my face has opened up a world of possibilities.

As for the "pocketable" point, some people just want a smaller and lighter kit, not something pocketable. No problem then.

So yeah with the best mirrorless systems you can have a small DSLR and small lenses with none of the problems of DSLRs

I dont mind composing from viewfinder or articulating screen tbh, but it does have it's disadvantages, mainly stabilization. I love shooting from above or below when possible, so I would welcome the articulating screen, but even more important is fast AF.

If I ever do go MILC, I'de probably get the olympus as of now. I just dont see the point of mirrorless as a second camera anymore. It's just not pocketable, so why bother? 5D + 40 pancake isnt much larger, and would produce higher quality images than any mirrorless system, so it's kind of redundant imo.

As a primary camera, MILC may be the future for serious amateurs.... but I tend to think that the platform is a little gimmicky TBH. Not quite sold on the format as a viable long term format. Thinking of it as an extention of a weak pns industry due to phone competition. The m43 format can die at the hands of this crony canon setup...

Charlie wrote in post #14759797
I dont mind composing from viewfinder or articulating screen tbh, but it does have it's disadvantages, mainly stabilization. I love shooting from above or below when possible, so I would welcome the articulating screen, but even more important is fast AF.

Can you say "in-body image stabilization"? IBIS, tilting screen, fast AF--you've just listed some of the big selling points of the E-M5.

Understood, and I appreciate that some people think go big or go pocketable, otherwise don't bother. I don't appreciate when people project that mentality onto others (not you, you're cool :cool as if it's the only way to be, which for some reason is so prevalent in a hobby like photography where there's so much variety and diversity. Just gotta shake my head sometimes at the zealots.

For me I'm almost never out there with 1 body and 1 lens, so the barebones body + lens comparisons don't do it for me and neither does the pocketability factor. I want to have a reasonably versatile kit on me whenever I have my camera, which means a body and 3 or more lenses. As a m4/3 user that's made my typical burden a lot lighter and the kit a lot smaller. I recently went on vacation with a m4/3-only kit and carried 2 bodies + 6 lenses that weighed less and was more versatile than the 1 DSLR + 3 lens setup that I would consider a bare minimum for trips. And honestly it's gotten to where m4/3 is my primary and DSLR is my secondary for personal shooting. m4/3 is missing a few niceties that make me hang on to my DSLR gear, but I can see myself going all m4/3 in the near future if things fall in place.

Mirrorless is the present for many serious amateurs. It's well-established in Asia where for instance in Japan it accounted for over 50% of the interchangeable lens system sales last year. Less so in Europe and the Americas but picking up steam. I don't see it going away anytime soon. In fact just the opposite: I can see a future where DSLRs are a niche and mirrorless is mainstream. The curtain is coming down on the flapping mirror

nonick wrote in post #14759000
The battery shots per charge number is a joke to me. Also the lack of buttons and dials turns me off. I am still waiting for the review and hoping it will be a very positive one especially when it comes to the AF speed/accuracy as well as the out of camera jpeg IQ /color/AWB. If so, it might have a chance.

Yeah, the battery issue is a problem, but a bigger problem for me is choosing what color to get. I'm leaning towards white right now. Or maybe silver. Not black. Black is for conformists.

Yohan Pamudji wrote in post #14759984
For me I'm almost never out there with 1 body and 1 lens, so the barebones body + lens comparisons don't do it for me and neither does the pocketability factor. I want to have a reasonably versatile kit on me whenever I have my camera, which means a body and 3 or more lenses. As a m4/3 user that's made my typical burden a lot lighter and the kit a lot smaller. I recently went on vacation with a m4/3-only kit and carried 2 bodies + 6 lenses that weighed less and was more versatile than the 1 DSLR + 3 lens setup that I would consider a bare minimum for trips. And honestly it's gotten to where m4/3 is my primary and DSLR is my secondary for personal shooting. m4/3 is missing a few niceties that make me hang on to my DSLR gear, but I can see myself going all m4/3 in the near future if things fall in place.

I see what you're saying. I never considered that much gear on vacation. In fact I've been trying to trim down my collection and shoot more often with what I have. My 3 primary lenses cover from 24-300mm, and even then, I only brought 2/3 on vacation due to weight issues. I definitely dont want to go any heavier, and carrying the "Brick" was the breaking point for me. Definitely dont want to carry anything that heavy anymore, although the Tamron comes close.

when it comes to mirrorless, the olympus seems like an easy choice over this canon, even with price difference in mind. I'm just hoping that m43 doesnt get crushed by canon.

Well, it was me who started the initial "New Canon mirrorless thread" in April, so despite getting plenty of hints from various friends, it seems to have all been for nothing......for now.

I voted that I'll watch the reviews, but I want an enthusiast-level mirrorless....or, a dSLR-sized mirrorless that creams the Sony Alpha77....not this first model "EOS-M".

This model will, I expect, SUCK as far as AF is concerned....when compared to what we're used to (I use 2x7Ds for pro concerts/opera/PR work).

I do want a little camera which can take my EF/EF-S lenses for my wife to use, and me, if I feel like it.
But it MUST have better AF, ideally an optical viewfinder/EVF, and better battery-life.

Regards,
Simon


PS: I think it's the size thing that interests me most. Not only for carrying, but also for throwing in the glovebox of my car....or for cycle rides.
Those extra few millimeters make this so much more convenient.

I have a hard time figuring out who the market is for one of these. If someone is moving up from a P&S to a DILC, then the T4i seems to be a very good (better) alternative (or several other 4/3rds). Someone with a DSLR and lenses might want one because it is smaller, but with the lenses, you're still carrying a lot. No flash is a killer also for a travel camera. No viewfinder is very tough with any longer lenses also. This one is tough to figure out ...

I sold my 60D this last winter and got a G1X, that has worked great for me. I've taken several thousand pictures and used the viewfinder about twenty times ... but when you need it ... you want it. The built-in flash I have used several hundred times and wouldn't buy a camera in this price and feature range without one.

Canon usually does their homework ... but I'm confused ...

I can't wait for all the gear savvy guys to start posting photos of their EOS Ms with 400 f/2.8s attached.

I was really looking forward to this camera but if I was to buy this camera I would probably buy:
$799 for the body and 22mm(would just buy the body if I could)
$199 for the EF lens Adaptor
$149 for the flash
and $79 for a extra battery(plus a grip if they release one)
=$1226

I think thats just abit too much right now. I think I'll wait it out for the 70d or what ever DSLR is next.

I would want one to try out with my EF lenses for traveling. However, I need to see what is going after some reviews and am eyeing the M43 format since the Oly came out.

It simply means that composing via an EVF is not quite as easy or natural as putting your eye to a viewfinder and looking like you would normally. People have complained that composition is a bit harder when not using a viewfinder and I would agree. Can it be done with a EVF, of course. I just don't think it is as natural of a feel and so easy to compose.

As for holding it, I really find it hard to imagine that holding something with the ergonomics of a deck of cards with a lens on it is going to be a joy to shoot with. Your fingers will drop off the bottom and it doesn't really fit your hand in an ergonomical way. It's not so much a bashing of mirrorless, but more like praise of a DSLR that fits really nicely in your hand. I just don't see a smaller format being able to capture that.

But like you said, to each his own. My opinion was really just about me. When I see people using a mirrorless camera I don't think "oh that sucks, I pitty them." I think "great, another photographer enjoying themselves just like me." (now if you stand in front of me with an iphone or blackberry and try to take 50 shots of the model me and 20 other guys are patiently trying to get a shot of, I will beat you to death with it...but that's another thread. haha)

Well I've been looking for a mirrorless with interchangeable lenses for quite some time and this just falls short. Without a viewfinder I just can't consider it. Holding a camera with any real lens at arms length doesn't work for me. The Fuji X Pro1 and Sony NEX-7 come the closest to my specs but the X pro1 is more than I wanted to spend. The Sony may end up being the way I go but having AF with an EF lens was a goal I was hoping to achieve so I've held off up to now.

I currently use a G11 and thought about a G1X but I really wanted to be able to put on two fast primes. The 22mm and and an 55mm are my first choice and then maybe an 85mm