Lenses for Swallows in Flight

I have a place where I can go and practice shooting images of these amazing little flyers as much as I want on weekends.
Thats where i have been with my 1DMk2 and 100-400 for the past 4 weekends.
I have tried all sorts of different settings, and so far i think I have maybe 1 - 4 images that are fairly sharp, and in focus.
All of the above are shot at 1/800 or above.
I also wonder about how fast the lens focuses, as the 100-400 doesn't seem very swift in that department. I also have a 70-200 without IS, and wondered If it would focus faster. These birds actually come within 4 to 10 feet sometime, so I don't always need the range , just the speed.
I've also found I get better focusing against the grass as oopoosed to open sky. It may be because the grass is fairly brown now, and provides a good contrast to the darker backed birds.

I've tried and tried with the swallows in flight.. It's hit and miss, mostly miss. If you take some time to watch the birds and find a common area where they are flying into a head wind it will give you that little bit of extra time to get them in frame and in focus. They are VERY difficult for Bird in flight shots.

i've tried my 70-200 with IS off, i confess - i don't know how people get shots of these things

A couple of points from someone with limited success shooting Swallows if I may. I've been fortunate enough to be in an area where there were several Swallows flying rounds, doing circuits apparently. I've had time to consider the technique and I made a bit of progress, others may disagree but this is what I did.
I found it best not to try to fill the frame with the bird, but rather to shoot from 20 to 30 feet away. This allows you to crop any result you get whilst still retaining some detail and it's not so close that it becomes impossible to try to track their erratic flight.
A fast shutter speed is essential (about 1/2000 sec I suggest, assuming you shoot on manual, if you do it using aperture priority then you'll have to use an ISO high enough to give a similar speed whilst allowing for an aperture of around f/8) IS isn't really necessary as the shutter speed will make it's use pointless and slow down your focus. A good panning action is needed (move your hips and keep your hands and arms steady) and lastly try to shoot both eyes open if you can so you can hold focus on the bird (in AI servo) with back button focussing whilst watching for changes in direction.
All very well in theory but my results aren't nearly as good as I'd like, however:

I guess my shooting at 1/800 to 1/1000 probably may not be fast enough then. I usually shoot with my camera set on TV and set the shutter speed, and let the camera decide the aperture.
I am also set at ISO 125, whereas I suppose I could go a little higher.
I usually just keep my finger on the button halfway and when it focuses I hit the button. Exposure wise the shots have been great, just mostly blurry birds or fuzzy grass !

Bsmooth wrote in post #14762506
I guess my shooting at 1/800 to 1/1000 probably may not be fast enough then. I usually shoot with my camera set on TV and set the shutter speed, and let the camera decide the aperture.
I am also set at ISO 125, whereas I suppose I could go a little higher.
I usually just keep my finger on the button halfway and when it focuses I hit the button. Exposure wise the shots have been great, just mostly blurry birds or fuzzy grass !

OK a couple of quick points: your shutter speed is far too low for Swallows, what you're using would do for Gulls and the like but all you can expect is blur at that speed. Don't pre suppose what ISO you need, decide on a shutter speed in manual mode, decide on an aperture and set an appropriate ISO to correctly expose the shot, or if you aren't comfortable with that, leave the camera on auto ISO until you're happier setting it yourself. Look up back button focussing on here, it's well documented, many people will tell you their success rate has improved since using it and I wouldn't now use anything else.

I'm not getting far either.
But whilst shooting them I have observed them.
Sometimes you can find an area where the ground topology makes for a good head wind. I have noticed they tend to slow up at these points and often turn to do another circuit.

Probably best moved to talk about birds.

Never much cared for auto ISO, which is why I use Shutter priority mode. I don't like much going above ISO 400, for noise. I've tried the back button focusing a few times, and just couldn't get used to it, but I'll have to try it again at some point.

Bsmooth wrote in post #14757752
I have a place where I can go and practice shooting images of these amazing little flyers as much as I want on weekends.
Thats where i have been with my 1DMk2 and 100-400 for the past 4 weekends.
I have tried all sorts of different settings, and so far i think I have maybe 1 - 4 images that are fairly sharp, and in focus.
All of the above are shot at 1/800 or above.
I also wonder about how fast the lens focuses, as the 100-400 doesn't seem very swift in that department. I also have a 70-200 without IS, and wondered If it would focus faster. These birds actually come within 4 to 10 feet sometime, so I don't always need the range , just the speed.
I've also found I get better focusing against the grass as oopoosed to open sky. It may be because the grass is fairly brown now, and provides a good contrast to the darker backed birds.

I have tried to take shots of them myself using a T2i and a 100-400mm, it's not easy, at all...
What I did find to help a lot was to zoom out as much as needed to be able to see where the bird is, and follow it until you see it coming at you, or close, then zoom in to follow it until you feel the need to shoot. Trying to focus on them, or, FIND THEM is the hardest part for me. That helped a LOT, I have a 1DIV but haven't tried to shoot those birds again lately, soon, I will, I'm sure. It sure is FUN though! I love to try, I literally suck at it, but it doesn't matter, I have a good time, and people stare at me like I'm some sort of nut! heh
Try turning off the IS on the lens, and see if that speeds it up for you. Like you said, try the 70-200, you don't need the 100-400mm for those birds, and you will probably get more shots using it too.
Back in the early Spring of this year was my first and ONLY time shooting them, but I learned a lot trying, like that my T2i wasn't fast enough in the FPS department, and that since I now have the f/2.8 400mm lens, the 100-400mm is a TINY lens in comparison, I still have it, so I will try again on the wily little-bitty birds!

Good luck!

Randy

Lots of good advice, and I agree, shooting images of them is quite a challenge,maybe thats why its such fun.
I was thinking of trying a T2i too, maybe have to second think that one. Maybe a 60D or 7D, for landscapes and bird photography, doing double duty.

Bsmooth wrote in post #14763122
Lots of good advice, and I agree, shooting images of them is quite a challenge,maybe thats why its such fun.
I was thinking of trying a T2i too, maybe have to second think that one. Maybe a 60D or 7D, for landscapes and bird photography, doing double duty.

Definitely get what you can afford, I mean, the best you can afford!
I'd go for the 7D if you can, I was saving up for one, then I decided to go for the 1D, I still have buyer's remorse, but I won't regret it later, and neither will you if you can a 7D, or whatever

You're only young once. (I just made that up)

Randy

the best photos of Swallows i've caught is about a second after they land, they are super hard to capture sharp!

I keep losing them in flight not only because they are swift but primarily because I still find their sudden changes of tack unpredictable even after hours spent observing them.

My best chances of getting a shot so far have been when they flutter right in front of the nest or when they try to land close to those who already occupy the best spots on the roof gables. Getting them right after take off from there also works for me. I'll obviously have to keep trying ...

Swallows are tough, but swifts are tougher!

The tiny, incredibly fast and erratically flying Vaux's swifts must be the ultimate challenge.

I was once where hundreds were flying around very close in perfect weather but was unable to get a single good shot or even video.

If anyone has a good shot of those in flight, let us know the secret.

I've actually had better success using manual focusing while tracking them with a decent DOF and SS. But I am crazy like that. Ive also tried focusing on a static object and letting them cross the area of view instead of tracking them. Both have worked better for me versus swinging my lens around like a wild man using BBF Ai Servo like I do for other critters. Shooting flying songbirds and especially the acrobatic ones is high up on the BIF challenge level any day of the week.