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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 24 Jul 2012 (Tuesday) 10:17
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Everyone loves my pictures but no one wants to pay

 
mmb
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Jul 25, 2012 18:34 |  #16

Glueeater wrote in post #14768199 (external link)
You have to break through somehow. All depends on how you approach starting out.

It's been said before, but no one charges or should expect immediate profit at the start. I assume these value shoots to be "startup" costs or a capital investment. Yes, I'm aware of "give something for free, they always expect it." Depends on how strong you are with your pricing.

edit: I work a full-time job that pays for the possibility of photo. I realize this is not the case for the majority of people.

You learn and do free shoots before going into business. Doesn't matter if you full time or part time. Do the math, you earn nothing with a $50-$100 shoot and free cd, you might as well do it totally free and skip all the liability of playing business owner.

/action Looks at name of sub-forum...




  
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inhousestudiosatl
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Jul 25, 2012 19:26 as a reply to  @ post 14769344 |  #17
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I think everybody here is wrong, I started out shooting my friends for free, But they would not just let me shoot for free. When i first started I would tell my friends I want to use them as a test subject they would let me. Starting out for me was easy friends would ask me what do you have to buy next, I would say and viola they would buy it. I now charge my friends a discout of 50% off I charge $150 an hour for events $300 for headshots $900 for two looks hair and mua. Change your friends




  
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Kylemorgan88
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Jul 25, 2012 23:23 as a reply to  @ inhousestudiosatl's post |  #18

Working for free seems like a hot topic around here. Some are 100% against it and others see it as the only way to break into the business.

I don't really shoot photography (my wife does), but I am branching into the wedding videography market and did my first Same Day Edit about two months ago for free. The bride loved the video and ended up plastering it all over her facebook wall and the wall of all her facebook friend who were getting married.

As a result of this one free gig, I've received 8 messages from prospective clients interested in my services. So far three are booked and I'm close to sealing the deal on a fourth.

Every snowball starts with one snowflake.




  
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SOK
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Jul 26, 2012 00:24 |  #19

Far too many people see things in black and white when it comes to charging when starting up yet they rarely (if ever) have visibility on the context or specifics of the question. I won't use a reference to the varying shades of tonality between black and white but indeed there is never a catch-all answer.

'Never work for free' is a generally a safe course of action but it's a very blunt and sometimes ineffective way to go.

The trouble in most cases is the OPs of threads like this start trying to think and plot a course AFTER a request for work has been made.


Steve
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Yarik
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Jul 26, 2012 02:23 |  #20

inhousestudiosatl wrote in post #14769683 (external link)
I think everybody here is wrong, .... .... Change your friends

Uh-huh :confused:


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RDKirk
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Jul 27, 2012 08:54 |  #21

SOK wrote in post #14770882 (external link)
Far too many people see things in black and white when it comes to charging when starting up yet they rarely (if ever) have visibility on the context or specifics of the question. I won't use a reference to the varying shades of tonality between black and white but indeed there is never a catch-all answer.

'Never work for free' is a generally a safe course of action but it's a very blunt and sometimes ineffective way to go.

I don't think anyone in this thread said "never work for free."

I sometimes do.

But what I will say is, "Never work cut rate. Either charge full price or do it free."

That's because nobody respects "a real good deal" in photography. If you charge $100 for what should have been a $5000 wedding job, they don't think of it as a $4900 gift--they still think of it as a $100 expense. If you want to give them a gift they'll respect, do it free (better yet, deliver an invoice showing full price, then say "Gift: No Charge."

But never cut your prices.


TANSTAAFL--The Only Unbreakable Rule in Photography

  
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Toohey ­ Photography
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Aug 08, 2012 20:46 |  #22

AMEN ! :cool:

whiteflyer wrote in post #14769344 (external link)
I love Ferraris, but can't afford one. It would good good publicity for Ferrari if I was seen driving round my town in one, do you think they'l give me one.

At the end of the day NOBODY will pay for anything if they can get it for free, as above you have to decide are you doing it as a hobby or business.


Kevin
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MaxImage
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Aug 11, 2012 16:35 |  #23

ssim wrote in post #14762557 (external link)
I think this is probably more likely to be what is happening. We've seen this same story many times on here and no matter how many times people are warned about giving it away for free they continue to do this. If you believe in your abilities as a photographer set realistic prices that will give you the returns that you feel you deserve. Setting your prices too low also sends a bad signal, IMO. If the current rate for product X is 200.00 and all of sudden you see a someone doing it for 30.00 people will think "what is wrong with this person's work". You don't have to be at the top echelon of the price range but somewhere in the middle seems to work fine.

When people ask me about going pro or at least getting a few paid gigs I always urge them to make a plan on how they want to gain that experience. My suggestion is to see if they can gain that experience on family and friends that you can trust and work with. If you post on social networking, Craigslist, etc. that you will do portraits for free or a fraction of the normal going rate you are setting yourself up as a budget provider. Even people that have the disposable income to pay the higher levels will choose you because at the end of the day why should they spend money they don't have to. If you have a wide circle of friends and acquaintances this becomes known and it is hard to dig yourself out of that hole. It is a difficult situation in how do you get that experience. The camera club that I belonged to once used to have a session where they would hire models each calendar quarter and you could book time with the model and have a pro there assist you. There is also the option of digging your wallet out and paying someone to model for you. Consider it an investment in your future. While I realize that everyone wants to do everything on the cheap, we go out and spend thousands on our gear and accessories but won't spend a couple of hundred dollars to get better. I've never gone to a shooting workshop but I have spoken to some that have and they gained valuable lessons and great images to use.

Once you have the portfolio that you feel proud of and you still are not getting the kind of paid jobs you want you can consider adjusting your pricing moderately. There are lots of things such as value added items like DVD's of the images that you can package together to make the pricing look more attractive. Offer a free print as the cost to us is minimal. I've packaged a free 8x10 in some portrait promotions that I did last year. The cost to me was around 2.50 at the lab I use but they thought they were getting something worth 35.00 for free. You have to make sure that they can see your normal price list when you do something like this though.

You are the master of your own destiny. It can be done but sometimes it might take a few dollars but dollars well spent. Other times you can get that experience for free. No matter which method you use when you decide to start advertising your services more globally you won't have to hear, "You did the shots of Nancy for free last month".

While many others in this thread have made valid points, this post drives the point home the best. While photography is strictly a hobby, I also do auto detailing. The two of which, have many parallels. Everyone wants a "free car wash", but auto detailing is really an art form, much like photography.

Like any business, identify the market players. Are you in a saturated market? Is there a niche that you can fill regardless of whether your market is saturated or not? But like the above poster has said, never sell yourself short from the get go. Determine how much your time and efforts are worth in proportion to your skill set--and relative to the other photographers in your market--and price yourself accordingly. Echoing the above post, starting somewhere in the middle is good. Why? Because the amount of people that can afford your services are much greater than the upper echelon of people, therefore you're accessible to more of the market. If you price yourself too low, people may overlook you entirely without getting enough clientele to showcase your work; reiterating the mindset of, "what's wrong with this person's work?" Having a higher market share depends on the cost relative to the quality of your work.

The flip side of that though, is a volume based business model. If you are priced lower than the rest, and people like your work, then you'll get more clientele, and thus more income, BUT...will your work suffer because you've bitten off more than you can chew? Potentially, but also potentially not. As in auto detailing, the best possible product/service is served with adequate time to perform the job and not taking on more than I can handle in a day. As a result, my prices are set accordingly, and it really does weed out those people that are just looking for a cheap car wash. Many times, I get told, why are you so much more expensive than Business X, or Business Y. But those clients that have been with me from the beginning have all come around to realize the value in having their automobile properly and well taken care of. The same with peoples' photographic needs. It has to be said though, that with detailing, the customer needs to be educated on the process and the differences between merely getting a clean car, vs a car that will look new, or better than new.

Photography, like detailing has a high start-up cost. Tens of thousands of dollars invested to do your work. But in photography, there are very few consumable resources, as you'll use the same equipment over and over again with infrequent replacement costs. And the resale value of photographic equipment yields much better returns than detailing.

Moral of the story: You'll get repeat customers so long as you deliver a quality product and are priced accordingly. By accordingly, I mean, not exuberantly, but with enough compensation for your time and efforts. If you deliver a high quality product often times people will not flinch at how much you charge. Remember, you're worth something too. And you're offering a good/service that is an art form. Something only a specialized individual can do. Anyone can take a picture, but only you can capture a moment.




  
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jmweb
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Aug 11, 2012 19:43 as a reply to  @ post 14769344 |  #24

The longer you do this free work, the longer people expect it to be free ;)


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LBaldwin
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Aug 11, 2012 19:57 |  #25

If you have less than 3 years of experience shooting then you really should not be charging anyone. The proviso is if you have had some pro level training then that can shorten some. Stay far away from weddings as the primary until you know how to do them cold. This time frame is just a guideline I use to hire assistants etc.

Shoot your friends for free and provide them prints until you understand the subtle shading the camera can provide, get pros in your area to review your work, and learn your craft backwards and forwards. You would be suprised how many "photographers" come to me as assistants and can't set up strobes or even use a meter. If you don't know negative fill, set-up the BG first, and how to hold reflector then you should not be charging for images (yet). This is not directly aimed at the OP but I'd bet at least some of my post fits.


Les Baldwin
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