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FORUMS Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon Digital Cameras 
Thread started 26 Jul 2012 (Thursday) 09:36
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New here. Looking at T3i. Lens dilemma

 
Craign
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Jul 27, 2012 13:52 |  #16

Refurbished T3i with 18-55 kit plus a refurbished 55-250 is $748 at Adorama.
Other items you might need:
Flash - I highly recommend getting an E-TTL flash that will tilt and swivel.
Post processing program - I use Lightroom 3, check for compatibility of the computer's operating system for Lightroom 4
Spare battery
Memory cards
Case
Tripod maybe?
The costs of accessories adds up in a hurry.

Your daughter needs to read this, it is better than some books: https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=414088


Canon 7D Mark II w/Canon BG-E16 Battery Grip; Canon EOS 50D w/Canon Battery Grip; Canon SL1; Tokina 12mm - 24mm f/4 PRO DX II; Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS; Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS; Canon 70-300mm f/4-5.6L IS; Sigma 85mm f/1.4 EX DG HSM; Canon EF 300mm f/4L IS; Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM; Canon Extender EF 1.4x II; Canon Extender EF 2x II; Canon Speedlite 430EX II Flash
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NBEast
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Jul 27, 2012 14:06 |  #17

DSLR video is a waaaay different world from just getting a camcorder.

Camcorder's AF is geared to video, is nearly instant, accurate, and IQ results are usually very acceptable even with a relatively cheap camera. Usually a very large zoom range is provided with camcorders and IS is very effective at making them viable to use.

DSLR video is more of a struggle, but with results more pro-caliber. T4i supposedly closes that usability gap some.

For general family video, I'd just spend $250 on a decent little camcorder.


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francis_a
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Jul 27, 2012 14:49 |  #18

Buying our first DSLR really isn't easy LOL

@watt100: I'm re-thinking now. I may just have to go with the 2-lens setup

@Craign: thanks for the link. passed it on to my daughter {and I'm reading it was well}. Very well written. As to the refurbished route, I'm highly considering that. Called CLP the other day and gave me $448 for a refurb T3i body. Locally, I can get the 18-55 and 55-250 kit lenses for $200 so that brings me to $648 total. I got to find a broken P&S though. My daughter's P&S is working fine and may keep it as a quick-draw camera.

@NBEast: I already have a Canon Vixia HF100 which I am keeping if I go with the T3i (only considered trading it in if I will get the T4i} so I got the family video part covered. I do understand the complexities with using DSLR for video but that's the challenge and interesting part for me. I shot a JVC GY-DV500u back in the days which is full manual and B&W viewfinder to boot. So I'm somehow familiar with full manual exposure, focus and zoom controls. That's why I like to play with a DSLR as a video camera. On top of that, I hate the fact that the HF100 cannot produce the DOF that I desire and color rendition a DSLR camera can provide.


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Keyan
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Jul 27, 2012 18:48 |  #19

alexjk24 wrote in post #14772930 (external link)
The 55-250 mm is really not a good lens I'm unhappy with it.

Really? Maybe you just have a bad copy, mine is a good a versatile lens.

A few shots:

IMAGE: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7200/6994254433_8ced72d77c_c.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …/61744772@N06/6​994254433/  (external link)
photo (external link) by slcko (external link), on Flickr

IMAGE: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7177/6994249711_bce8a8eb45_c.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …/61744772@N06/6​994249711/  (external link)
photo (external link) by slcko (external link), on Flickr

IMAGE: http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5142/5757556857_79fc695e0e_z.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …/61744772@N06/5​757556857/  (external link)
IMG_6614 cropped (external link) by slcko (external link), on Flickr

IMAGE: http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2262/5758100456_260c635f20_z.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …/61744772@N06/5​758100456/  (external link)
IMG_6661 (external link) by slcko (external link), on Flickr

The 55-250 serves as a decent macro lens in addition to a longer zoom.

Cameras: 7D2, S100
Lenses: 17-55 f/2.8 IS USM, 18-135 STM, 24-70 f/4L IS USM, 50 f/1.4 USM,70-300L IS USM
Other Stuff: 430 EX II, Luma Labs Loop 3, CamRanger

  
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HyperCams
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Jul 27, 2012 19:23 |  #20

Perfect_10 wrote in post #14777421 (external link)
I can't agree with the latter. While it's a good lens to have around, and is VFM when purchased used (I got mine for $30 including an old EOS film camera), I would not have dropped $130 on it. It's slow to focus, a PITA to manually focus, hunts like a tortiose in low light, and is flimsy and easily broken if you even sneeze with it in your hand :)

That is true, I wouldnt buy a new one myself either...I just meant to say that even new, it is a decent lens for the $, but when buying it used it is easily worth every penny.imho YMMV..

I never meant to say that it would be the best 50mm lens, but for 1/4 or less of the price of the Sigma 50mm, it is pretty amazing....and it may be slow to focus, but atleast it is accurate(for the most part), which I cant say the same about my Sigma 50.lol


to the OP, imho the nifty fifty, 18-55IS, and 55-250IS are the perfect combo for a hobbyist or someone starting out(or even for those with much more experience)..great combo. if your daughter is like most of my friends, you will find she will eventually use the 50mm for just about any/everything and the zooms will be "backup" lenses or for convenience.. the 50 will just push someone to try and be more expressive with their compositions, and make them think more about how the shot will look before even pulling the camera up to the eye..
YMMV though.. but it sounds like she will probably have a blast with the T3i and whatever lens combo you come up with..
I personally dont see the advantages of the T4i with the current price differences..unless video was your main intent..other than a few video features they are identical in every way..AFAIK

Good luck! :)


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francis_a
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Jul 29, 2012 10:20 |  #21

Well, I'm glad to report that the deed is done.

Just picked up the T3i with 18-135 kit. Can't pass up on the deal, it's just too good. It's all brand new as well. Daughter's very excited .......... {as well as the dad}


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MidnightRook
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Aug 06, 2012 10:39 |  #22

The t3i, 18-135mm, and 50 1.8 combo will be a great combination. You'll have access from wide to tele-photo, and have a great portrait/low light lens from the 50 1.8. For the price, it's awesome, but as far as focal length for me it's kind of long (i like taking photos when sitting across from my wife and family), so I opted for the 35 f2. Buzzy, though. I've seen some awesome work done with the Sigma 30 1.4, so you may want to look into that one.

regardless, good luck with everything!


T3i EF-S 18-55II w/grip ¦ EF 35 2 ¦ EF 50 1.8
Pentax Spotmatic |Takumar 35 3.5|Takumar 50 1.4
EQ 135 2.8 | Fotodiox M42 to EOS Adapter
flickr (external link) BLOG (external link) Jean-Pierre EF 40mm 2.8 STM Flickr group! (external link)

  
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wayne.robbins
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Aug 07, 2012 19:31 |  #23

OK, I am definitely not a fan of the Canon 18-55 IS. Some here- drink too much kool-aid. Or at least the wrong kool-aid. Respectable ? perhaps. Limited? Definitely. Does it have known flaws ? Yep, just like every other lens out there below a certain price point. Don't ask me- ask anyone that uses one.. My biggest gripes with it- limited range. For that limited range- you still don't get a faster lens- just a cheaper lens! So, it's a slow lens, with limited range, and other things that are far from optimal. It's like buying a yugo!

Most cameras and lenses are a culmination of at least several basic facts. 1) you get what you pay for 2) if you pay more - you are often more likely to be more satisfied. 3) Any basic DSLR's are the same on the basic levels. For basic picture taking, you could easily take the same pictures, in good lighting, with an XSI from years back, and a t4i -current- and be nearly the same. The differences will be where you can't take the picture very well with the XSI and where the t4i will excel. In other words, technology changes, and the changes are usually at the edges- the limits- improvements that the older cameras usually lack. So, yeah, I am usually a fan of getting the newer technology- even though I end up paying for it.
Canon, first off, is a business that is in it for the money. As they research their business, and develop newer technology- they often don't include those newer features, enhancements into their product lines. Rather, they bring that technology out in the next model in the series. Sometimes they do- but not that often, do they provide a major upgrade including features- usually, it's limited to fixing issues The t3i and t4i are part of the Rebel series- entry level cameras. Price wise, they don't make as much off from these cameras- per camera- but do make more from raw number of sales . So, reality- they just bring out the improvements in whatever the next generation is - and see who bites.
Now, body vs lens: Most people buy a body and a kit lens to start out with. Later, they tend to add or upgrade lenses as they progress- so in a lot of ways- the body starts getting left behind- so to speak. IMO, it's beneficial to start out with the newest body you can- because you will likely keep it for a while.
18-135 IS ( as that comes with the 60D, T3i, 7D, etc ) is, in my opinion, a relatively decent lens to start out with. It's convenient- and gives a bit of versatility- i.e. it covers a wide range that a lot of people could or tend to use. It's main limitations- it's still a kit lens. The 18-55 IS, on the other hand, it's range, to me, and a lot of others as well, is kind of limited. To me, 18-55 is about the range you would use indoors - in a home or whatever- and it's ok for that. Take it outside- and then you realize how short it is. You will then find your need for more reach.
This is where the 55-250 comes in. Paired together- the 18-55 IS and the 55-250 butt up nicely. When you run out of range on one- swap over- and use the other. Swap the lens. Problem is, sometimes, you end up doing that repeatedly- swapping from one to the other and back.. back and forth, back and forth.. Pain in the you know what. Take a 18-135 IS and a 55-250 IS - well , there's a fair amount of overlap. Some people say- bad- waste- etc. I say great. Why? Rather than swapping lenses repeatedly at 55mm, I just keep going- and take it all the way up to 135mm. Less lens swapping. Less fatigue. More enjoyable. Heck, for most purposes, I can go out walking around- and carry only one lens. So, to me- a 18-135 is a lens of convenience. Difference in IQ- not really. Some will quote tests. Real life- not !

Now the t4i- with the 18-135 IS STM- optimized for video. I think the new 18-135 IS STM is actually a bit sharper than the older 18-135 IS. So, yes- Canon charges a little bit more for it. Worthwhile- probably. If you want to do video with a DSLR- and let it autofocus - the t4i/18-135 IS STM combo is the way to go. It focuses quickly. It's quiet- almost imperceptible. From my copy- it's sharper than the original 18-135. Want more range later - get another lens- need cheap- use a 55-250 .. Or go to a better lens like a 70-200..
Some say get a dedicated camcorder. Same people that say that- should be using a point and shoot instead of a DSLR - for the same reasons! What's the biggest differences between a $300 camcorder and a $1100 DSLR ? Or a $800 DSLR ? The size of the sensor. The amount of separation you get - the Depth of Focus that you get from a DSLR. Most of those dedicated camcorders are using very small sensors- and the smaller the sensors- the more that happens to be in focus at once- less separation. So, I say- those that say get a $300 camcorder- get a $200 P&S to go along with it. Perfect match!

In the end, I would suggest getting as much camera and lens that you can afford - going in. Don't look at it as a bargain hunt! Then learn with it. Use it. enjoy it. Then upgrade the lenses if and when you outgrow them or you need something else or in addition to what you already have.


EOS 5D III, EOS 7D,EOS Rebel T4i, Canon 70-200 f/2.8 IS II, Canon 24-105L, Canon 18-135 IS STM, 1.4x TC III, 2.0x TC III, Σ 50mm f/1.4, Σ 17-50 OS, Σ 70-200 OS, Σ 50-500 OS, Σ 1.4x TC, Σ 2.0x TC, 580EXII(3), Canon SX-40, Canon S100
Fond memories: Rebel T1i, Canon 18-55 IS, Canon 55-250 IS, 18-135 IS (Given to a good home)...

  
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francis_a
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Aug 07, 2012 21:37 |  #24

Excellent points here. We're enjoying the T3i very much for the 10 days that we've had it.

Still in the learning process but taking lots of photos, as much as we can. Coincidentally, my son needs lots of photos of animals, insects, plants and trees for his AP Bio work so the T3i is put to good use.

Coming from years of using P&S and camcorders, it's a rather steep learning curve to use the DSLR effectively. Of course it can be used as point-and-shoot but I have taught my kids to use only the Av, Tv or better yet manual modes to set up exposure. Focusing is still mixed bag, even for me. I use manual focus a lot but use auto (rear-button AF lock) using a center AF point when I'm in a rush to take the shot.

As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, I was more of video guy so I take control when videos are to be taken. It is quite a challenge. And this I laugh at myself a lot. I almost feel like the AF of the T3i at times when it tries to hunt. I most of the time turn the focus ring the wrong way! And also overshoot the focus point more often than not. But .......... the rewards of using a DSLR for video far surpasses the trouble. When I watch videos I take with the T3i on our HDTV, I'm nothing short of amazed. The amount of separation is just amazing. I've done a couple of pull focus shots during our mini vacation and am very satisfied with the results. I've learned to keep off the zoom and compose the shots beforehand, well, first off, the lens is not parfocal so it loses focus anyways but secondly, it just doesn't look good.

Having said that though, I am now, more than ever, enjoying taking photos. I've even started doing some PP, basic corrections but experimenting with HDR and the Brenizer methods as well. This is just so much fun.

At this point, I have the 18-135 IS and the 50 1.8. Sometime this week though, I'll be picking up the 55-250 IS which as wayne stated, gives that overlap that won't force me to switch lenses often. Sometime in the future though, I would like a 15-85, or even the 18-135 STM.

I really would have chosen to get the T4i with the 18-135 STM but budget did not agree with me. Got the T3i with the 18-135 IS for $650 brand new is something that fits my budget more, plus I get to buy the 50mm and 55-250mm as well.

Please don't laugh too hard at these pics. Just want to show what images we've taken so far with the T3i.

#1 Wife and daughter; 50mm @ f1.8

IMAGE: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7119/7714982438_c0559aa25c_c.jpg

#2 Daughter caught in the act in another shopping spree; 50mm @ f1.8
IMAGE: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7138/7714982982_82acb55fc3_c.jpg

#3 The pirate roaming around the festival we went to; 41mm @ f5.0
IMAGE: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7111/7715047378_90dacb2c09_c.jpg

#4 One of the performers at the festival (Amy Allen?); 135mm @ f5.6, handheld.
IMAGE: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7109/7715001572_f5f957c806_c.jpg

#5 My first attempt at HDR
IMAGE NOT FOUND
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/gif' | Redirected to error image by FLICKR


#6 My first attempt at the Brenizer method. My son posing for the shot. I should've used the 50mm for this one.
IMAGE NOT FOUND
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/gif' | Redirected to error image by FLICKR

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watt100
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Aug 08, 2012 04:22 |  #25

francis_a wrote in post #14828539 (external link)
Excellent points here. We're enjoying the T3i very much for the 10 days that we've had it.

Still in the learning process but taking lots of photos, as much as we can. Coincidentally, my son needs lots of photos of animals, insects, plants and trees for his AP Bio work so the T3i is put to good use.

Coming from years of using P&S and camcorders, it's a rather steep learning curve to use the DSLR effectively. Of course it can be used as point-and-shoot but I have taught my kids to use only the Av, Tv or better yet manual modes to set up exposure. Focusing is still mixed bag, even for me. I use manual focus a lot but use auto (rear-button AF lock) using a center AF point when I'm in a rush to take the shot.

As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, I was more of video guy so I take control when videos are to be taken. It is quite a challenge. And this I laugh at myself a lot. I almost feel like the AF of the T3i at times when it tries to hunt. I most of the time turn the focus ring the wrong way! And also overshoot the focus point more often than not. But .......... the rewards of using a DSLR for video far surpasses the trouble. When I watch videos I take with the T3i on our HDTV, I'm nothing short of amazed. The amount of separation is just amazing. I've done a couple of pull focus shots during our mini vacation and am very satisfied with the results. I've learned to keep off the zoom and compose the shots beforehand, well, first off, the lens is not parfocal so it loses focus anyways but secondly, it just doesn't look good.

Having said that though, I am now, more than ever, enjoying taking photos. I've even started doing some PP, basic corrections but experimenting with HDR and the Brenizer methods as well. This is just so much fun.

At this point, I have the 18-135 IS and the 50 1.8. Sometime this week though, I'll be picking up the 55-250 IS which as wayne stated, gives that overlap that won't force me to switch lenses often. Sometime in the future though, I would like a 15-85, or even the 18-135 STM.

I really would have chosen to get the T4i with the 18-135 STM but budget did not agree with me. Got the T3i with the 18-135 IS for $650 brand new is something that fits my budget more, plus I get to buy the 50mm and 55-250mm as well.

Please don't laugh too hard at these pics. Just want to show what images we've taken so far with the T3i.

looks like you're off to a good start, the 18-135, 50mm 1.8 and 55-250IS will go a long way




  
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