Yongnuo YN-622C Controller Trigger

Sorry but I am a little confused on the use of studio strobes and speedlites together.
Do I use mixed mode on the 622's?

My strobes [monolights are Bowens GM 500R's and GM 250R's with a flash duration of 1/900 sec. and 1/1100 sec respectively]. Can the monolights also be used in HSS?
Can I set the 430EXII as HSS TTL and the Bowens manually in this mixed mode?

And if so wIll they be limited to 1/900 sec? i.e. being the fastest shutter speed I can use because this is the slowest flash duration of the two Bowens?

I am also interested to know in ETTL mode and using HSS will the 622's make the 430EXII speedlight send out a preflash to calculate the required exposure?
I need to know this because, if they do not, I could set up one 430EX II, so that triggers the Bowens using their optical cells. If this were possible I would only need 2x 622's i.e. one on the 7D, and one to attach the 430EXII by it's hotshoe.

If not, I guess I would have to turn off the Bowens optical cells and get them triggered by a short PC cable between the 622 and the Bowens. Then I would need 4 or 5x 622's depending if I used one or 2 speedlites and the 2 Bowens monolights

Can one mount the 430EXII on the 622 and then mount that on the 430EXII's remote metal foot, or will the foot 'short out' the pins on the 622's hotshoe?
I generally mount the 430EXII's by using the 1/4" threaded hole in the littel base/foot [onto the 1/4" spigot on my Calumet air cushioned stands.

Sorry for all the questions - any help appreciated

lianggc wrote in post #14989203
Vnation, how about with wireless enabled? As I know, some camera bodies limits the response time of flash while wireless is disabled. That's why we suggest to keep it enabled when you don't use 2nd curtain sync.

Top Man!! That's sorted it, enabled the wireless setting in the menu and it's fixed it.

Thanks for the suggestion, just ordered another set.
oh and Btw the hyper sync performance is the same as the kings for manual strobes.
Just tried it on my Jinbei Discovery 1200w and I got the same results as the Pixel kings

Mike

CliveyBoy wrote in post #14987790
I have posted "The Other YN-622 User Guide" at
https://docs.google.co​m …7OmmGIg0gMSkJHX​3RkdDJlNE0

Nice job. Thanks for posting it.

Submariner wrote in post #14989486
Sorry but I am a little confused on the use of studio strobes and speedlites together.
Do I use mixed mode on the 622's?

My strobes [monolights are Bowens GM 500R's and GM 250R's with a flash duration of 1/900 sec. and 1/1100 sec respectively]. Can the monolights also be used in HSS?
Can I set the 430EXII as HSS TTL and the Bowens manually in this mixed mode?

And if so wIll they be limited to 1/900 sec? i.e. being the fastest shutter speed I can use because this is the slowest flash duration of the two Bowens?

I am also interested to know in ETTL mode and using HSS will the 622's make the 430EXII speedlight send out a preflash to calculate the required exposure?
I need to know this because, if they do not, I could set up one 430EX II, so that triggers the Bowens using their optical cells. If this were possible I would only need 2x 622's i.e. one on the 7D, and one to attach the 430EXII by it's hotshoe.

If not, I guess I would have to turn off the Bowens optical cells and get them triggered by a short PC cable between the 622 and the Bowens. Then I would need 4 or 5x 622's depending if I used one or 2 speedlites and the 2 Bowens monolights

Can one mount the 430EXII on the 622 and then mount that on the 430EXII's remote metal foot, or will the foot 'short out' the pins on the 622's hotshoe?
I generally mount the 430EXII's by using the 1/4" threaded hole in the littel base/foot [onto the 1/4" spigot on my Calumet air cushioned stands.

Sorry for all the questions - any help appreciated

The pre-flash in TTL-mode is sure to be!,
To properly run your studio monoblocks, you need as many receivers. how much you have flashes.
430EXII put the shoe on the YN-622
Bowens connect via cable to the PC if you want SuperSync.
Yours Bowens will work even on very short exposures, but the photos do not avoid the gradient.

You can see for yourself by running BOWENS with 430EXII in manual mode with HSS.

As I understand it, to Bowens worked on X-Sync with 430EXII in TTL+HSS, you need to take a sync signal from YN622C hot shoe.
Need an adapter.

Please correct me if I'm wrong!

Submariner wrote in post #14989486
Sorry but I am a little confused on the use of studio strobes and speedlites together.
Do I use mixed mode on the 622's?

My strobes [monolights are Bowens GM 500R's and GM 250R's with a flash duration of 1/900 sec. and 1/1100 sec respectively]. Can the monolights also be used in HSS?
Can I set the 430EXII as HSS TTL and the Bowens manually in this mixed mode?

And if so wIll they be limited to 1/900 sec? i.e. being the fastest shutter speed I can use because this is the slowest flash duration of the two Bowens?

I am also interested to know in ETTL mode and using HSS will the 622's make the 430EXII speedlight send out a preflash to calculate the required exposure?
I need to know this because, if they do not, I could set up one 430EX II, so that triggers the Bowens using their optical cells. If this were possible I would only need 2x 622's i.e. one on the 7D, and one to attach the 430EXII by it's hotshoe.

If not, I guess I would have to turn off the Bowens optical cells and get them triggered by a short PC cable between the 622 and the Bowens. Then I would need 4 or 5x 622's depending if I used one or 2 speedlites and the 2 Bowens monolights

Can one mount the 430EXII on the 622 and then mount that on the 430EXII's remote metal foot, or will the foot 'short out' the pins on the 622's hotshoe?
I generally mount the 430EXII's by using the 1/4" threaded hole in the littel base/foot [onto the 1/4" spigot on my Calumet air cushioned stands.

Sorry for all the questions - any help appreciated

622 works with single contact flashes and studio strobes (via pc cable) in both remote control mode and mix mode.

Not sure if your studio strobes work with supersync of 622. Generally, 1/900 sec duration isn't enough for all the shutter speed.

When 430EX II is in ETTL-II mode, 622 will tell it to emit a preflash as the camera need that to calculate the exposure. While in M/Multi mode, it won't.

Thanks for the help.
What do you mean by "but the photos do not avoid the gradient" is that the black line/band that can start at the bottom of the image?

Re "As I understand it, to Bowens worked on X-Sync with 430EXII in TTL+HSS, you need to take a sync signal from YN622C hot shoe.
Need an adapter."
Are you saying I'd have to have a hotshoe to PC sync lead adapter?
If so why can't I just plug the 430EXII on the 622's hotshoe?

iituner wrote in post #14989636
The pre-flash in TTL-mode is sure to be!,
To properly run your studio monoblocks, you need as many receivers. how much you have flashes.
430EXII put the shoe on the YN-622
Bowens connect via cable to the PC if you want SuperSync.
Yours Bowens will work even on very short exposures, but the photos do not avoid the gradient.

You can see for yourself by running BOWENS with 430EXII in manual mode with HSS.

As I understand it, to Bowens worked on X-Sync with 430EXII in TTL+HSS, you need to take a sync signal from YN622C hot shoe.
Need an adapter.

Please correct me if I'm wrong!

lianggc wrote in post #14989656
622 works with single contact flashes and studio strobes (via pc cable) in both remote control mode and mix mode.

Not sure if your studio strobes work with supersync of 622. Generally, 1/900 sec duration isn't enough for all the shutter speed.

When 430EX II is in ETTL-II mode, 622 will tell it to emit a preflash as the camera need that to calculate the exposure. While in M/Multi mode, it won't.

H lianggc
Thanks for the response, but sorry I don't understand. What is a 'single contact flash' [Is that a speedlight?].

Can you expand on "Generally, 1/900 sec duration isn't enough for all the shutter speed." What shutter speeds should it work at? The bowens work fine at 1/250 of a sec.Would they work up to 1/900 of a sec?

lianggc wrote in post #14989656
622 works with single contact flashes and studio strobes (via pc cable) in both remote control mode and mix mode.

Not sure if your studio strobes work with supersync of 622. Generally, 1/900 sec duration isn't enough for all the shutter speed.

When 430EX II is in ETTL-II mode, 622 will tell it to emit a preflash as the camera need that to calculate the exposure. While in M/Multi mode, it won't.

I thought that the center pin of the shoe is always X-Sync

My JINBEI DPIII have pulse 1/820 s.
With PixelKing I could shoot in SuperSync to 1/8000s.

Submariner wrote in post #14989924
Thanks for the help.
What do you mean by "but the photos do not avoid the gradient" is that the black line/band that can start at the bottom of the image?

I am thinking about getting a few of those triggers and get 2 YN568EX speedlights which has HSS.
So you can see this like a budget 600EX setup?
You can control everything from your camera including ETTL and HSS?

Just a confirm before I click the buy button.

iituner wrote in post #14989636
Yours Bowens will work even on very short exposures, but the photos do not avoid the gradient.

As I understand it, to Bowens worked on X-Sync with 430EXII in TTL+HSS, you need to take a sync signal from YN622C hot shoe.
Need an adapter.

Expanded detail: Supersync depends on the burn time of the Xenon tube in the flash. The burn starts with a big peak and then tails off. This creates a decreasing light being emitted as the shutter slit moves across the sensor. We can see this as a lighting gradient in the image.

The sync signal from the PC-sync port is the same (almost) as the centre pin in the hot-shoe. Do not try to use the hot-shoe to connect stufio strobes - use a PC-sync cable. One benefit is that this connection can withstand 300 volts coming back from the strobe. (6 volts on the shoe.)

The PC-sync port delivers 1st curtain sync or 2nd curtain sync or "fast-shutter" pre-sync triggering, as determined by the camera settings.

Submariner wrote in post #14989958
What is a 'single contact flash' [Is that a speedlight?].

Can you expand on "Generally, 1/900 sec duration isn't enough for all the shutter speed." What shutter speeds should it work at? The bowens work fine at 1/250 of a sec.Would they work up to 1/900 of a sec?

"Single Contact" is what most studio strobes have for an external sync connection. Old flashes may alo have a single centre pin contact.

Multi-pin hot-shoe flashes can also be driven as if they were single-contact - e.g. like Nikon flashes. They just need to be connected by a PC-sync cable.

Supersync depends on the tube's burn time lasting long enough to still be effective at the end of the shutter slit's travel time. The burn has to start before the shutter starts to open and last until it is closed. The electrical setup of strobes can provide a short or a long burn time; it varies by model.

The x-sync value of a camera is fixed. At faster shutter speeds, a "best of a bad situation" solution is required. The effectiveness of Supersync will vary by model, by shutter speed and by output level settings.

CliveyBoy wrote in post #14991321
Expanded detail: Supersync depends on the burn time of the Xenon tube in the flash. The burn starts with a big peak and then tails off. This creates a decreasing light being emitted as the shutter slit moves across the sensor. We can see this as a lighting gradient in the image.

The sync signal from the PC-sync port is the same (almost) as the centre pin in the hot-shoe. Do not try to use the hot-shoe to connect stufio strobes - use a PC-sync cable. One benefit is that this connection can withstand 300 volts coming back from the strobe. (6 volts on the shoe.)

The PC-sync port delivers 1st curtain sync or 2nd curtain sync or "fast-shutter" pre-sync triggering, as determined by the camera settings.

Thanks Clive.
Most informative. I downloaded the 622 manual ....... uhmmm found that hard going to understand.
But then I am starting from scratch with flash technology.
Out of interest does the shutter go from top to bottom or left to right on a 7D?

I was confused about something else, if it's true the camera effectively gets the flash to almost start firing just before the initial shutter opening and therefore really uses the tail of the flash [the weaker part] to achieve the exposure [which I guess falls off over time]. Why doesn't the camera get the flash to fire its brightest part in the middle of the exposure to avoid this gradient effect?

Glad to hear using the PC sync cable was the right way. Apparrently the Bowens is a max of 5 volts so I'm well covered on that aspect - unless there was some kind of horrendous short/blowback.

iituner wrote in post #14990025
I thought that the center pin of the shoe is always X-Sync

Not so. It is 1st curtain, 2nd curtain or "fast-shutter" pre-sync. The Kings and the 622s are like this.

The 622 tries to use the 4 extra pins to identify the nature of the mounted beast, and handle it accordingly. It cannot do that with a flash connected by the two-wire PC-sync cable.

Submariner wrote in post #14991429
Out of interest does the shutter go from top to bottom or left to right on a 7D?
...
Why doesn't the camera get the flash to fire its brightest part in the middle of the exposure to avoid this gradient effect?

1. Canon shutters (mostly) work up and down. The sequence is:
Both curtains closed over the sensor.
Second curtain drops.
First curtain goes up.
Sensor is fully exposed and sync signal sent; flash fires.
At end of exposure, second curtain goes up. Sensor covered.
First curtain drops. Sensor double-covered ready for next shot.

2. Compromise! The camera does not know what device is connected by two wire, or its characteristics. The light output varies greatly during the burn (think half a tadpole shape), so the lighting is going to be uneven and show somewhere.

3. The camera produces an "I'm about to open" signal for HSS. HSS is what Canon calls "flat light", and can be generated by electronics in the flash. No electronics - no HSS. This signal is also used by Supersync.

Submariner wrote in post #14991429
I was confused about something else, if it's true the camera effectively gets the flash to almost start firing just before the initial shutter opening and therefore really uses the tail of the flash [the weaker part] to achieve the exposure [which I guess falls off over time]. Why doesn't the camera get the flash to fire its brightest part in the middle of the exposure to avoid this gradient effect?

How is sync speed determined for a Canon camera? It is the fastest shutter speed where the first curtain completely clears the sensor before the second curtain starts to cover the shutter ending the exposure. For all shutter speeds greater than sync speed the exposure is accomplished by a slit between the two shutter curtains traveling across the sensor plane. As the shutter speed gets faster the slit gets narrower. This approach is required because there is a maximum speed at which the curtains can travel. The exact speed is probably a bit faster than the sync speed. A crop camera has a higher sync speed because the shutter curtains have less distance to travel.

The shutter on Canon cameras travels from bottom of image to top. i.e. the first curtain clears the sensor by dropping from the top of the camera to the bottom. The second curtain covers the sensor by dropping from the top of the camera to the bottom. This travel pattern makes sense considering how the mirror moves to clear the sensor aperture.

Here is the sequence of events that occur for an exposure with flash with a Canon camera:
1)Camera determines, via settings whether to transmit fire pulse to flash when first curtain opens or just before second curtain closes.
2) Or, if the camera should "pre-fire" the flash after sending it a command for High Speed Sync pulsing to accommodate a shutter speed greater than sync speed.
3) The time lag from fire pulse to shutter actuation is controlled by camera specs to ensure that either the curtains are clear of the shutter (1) or that the speedlite is illuminating the subject when the curtain begins its travel (2) to ensure even illumination.

Hyper Sync (Pocket Wizard term) or Super Sync (YN term) is a hack to enable a studio strobe to illuminate a subject at shutter speeds higher than sync speed. The hack has to accommodate two realities; a) camera flash fire pulse is timed to ensure that the curtains are clear of the sensor; b) studio strobes have a rapid build up of power to the flash tube and then a gradual decrease resulting is pike and tail light output curve. Since the intent is to have the flash illuminate only a portion of the sensor at any moment in time during the curtain travel, its necessary to fire the flash before the shutter opens so that the pike light output does not over expose a narrow sliver of the image. To accomplish this the triggers fool the camera into thinking it should deliver a HSS early fire pulse to the flash. This means the pike of the flash output will be past when the shutter slit begins to travel across the sensor. Thus the tail of the flash output illuminates the image. Because the power is diminishing over time as the slit is traveling across the sensor the exposure is gradated.

This technique works with monolights that use voltage to control power settings. i.e. half power means half full capacitor. etc. This also means that as power settings are reduced the tail of the studio strobe flattens and the flash duration from start to t.1 (when 90% of the light output has been delivered.) is longer. The secondary advantage is that a lower power setting with a higher shutter speed means that the gradient from start to end of shutter travel may be less depending on the tail curve characteristics. It also means that even less of the available output from the strobe is used to illuminate the subject.

Providing that the trigger can effectively deliver a "pre-shutter" fire signal, the hack does offer some benefits for using strobes at greater than sync speed. Unfortunately there is no way to effectively meter the light output. This means the photographer has to depend on using "digital Polaroid's " to confirm proper exposure.

(For those reading this that are too young to have used a Polaroid back on a view camera to confirm exposure substitute "chimping" for "digital Polaroid.)