Finally got my 7D and wow my 85mm looks great!

TeamSpeed wrote in post #14795481
Obviously as you are finding out, it is best to eliminate as many factors as you can when doing MA. This means shooting the same static target each and every time. A kid isn't the best target material for MA!

You can use the battery test, the DVD/VHS + ruler test, or even use the free focus genie I have linked in my sale post in my signature. These 3 methods (along with a handful of other great methods, like focusing on a computer screen, AF, then use live view to see how much to adjust AF) will really help nail down consistent results.

Lots of light, low ISO, etc will also help the tests. Keep in mind that different types of lighting will also change your focus results.

Exactly. After dialing it in I've never had so much wow with this lens. 1.8 use to always be soft and it wasn't till 2.2 it would start to sharpen up and now as far as sharpness no difference between 1.8 and 2.0 just less CA.

As you are finding, with a completely functionally perfect body, the 7D creates very sharp images once you have great glass that has been MA'd to the body. I think alot of folks don't match up all these criteria at once, and thus a number of the "7d not sharp" posts are created.

This was from the 55-250 IS lens, wide open, which was surprising really.

Talley wrote in post #14795134
I always check focus with one shot mode.

I was more referring to general photography than just checking focus for possible micro adjustment.

Talley wrote in post #14795134
It seems as if -4 is producing the best results. Which is wierd because that indicates original spec is back focus.

True. But do you have any other indication of front focus than the picture of the boy with the mask, a picture which isn't conclusive, for the reason I mentioned above?
Well, never mind, if -4 gives the best result then go with that. A quick way to check, without even taking any pictures, is to let the camera focus with the phase difference sensor whilst in live view. Then you check the area the used AF point is covering in max magnification, using live view. If you can get the focus any better manually, then the AF requires calibration.
Also check the lens coming in from both infinity and close range, since there may be a play in the mechanics in the lens, if you get bad results.

Finally, don't get too buried into this MA thing. It has driven some people out of their senses, so don't forget to actually take photos too. The 7D is a very capable machine, especially for action photography. The AF system is about as complex as that of the 1D Mark IV, though, so it will probably take you a while to fully appreciate.

apersson850 wrote in post #14795992
I was more referring to general photography than just checking focus for possible micro adjustment.
True. But do you have any other indication of front focus than the picture of the boy with the mask, a picture which isn't conclusive, for the reason I mentioned above?
Well, never mind, if -4 gives the best result then go with that. A quick way to check, without even taking any pictures, is to let the camera focus with the phase difference sensor whilst in live view. Then you check the area the used AF point is covering in max magnification, using live view. If you can get the focus any better manually, then the AF requires calibration.
Also check the lens coming in from both infinity and close range, since there may be a play in the mechanics in the lens, if you get bad results.

Finally, don't get too buried into this MA thing. It has driven some people out of their senses, so don't forget to actually take photos too. The 7D is a very capable machine, especially for action photography. The AF system is about as complex as that of the 1D Mark IV, though, so it will probably take you a while to fully appreciate.

Awesome advice. I do adjust from infinity and close range and check that way but for my past experience no matter what kind of studio test you do it's the real world tests that matter. While before on the 60D the tests showed it to be off it really wasn't that noticeable in actual photos just every now and then at F2 if the subject got close.

One thing I do alot of is photos of my kids and my familys kids (cousins and such) and spend alot of time during the sports seasons at their games so I'm very excited to have the new AF capability and plan to spend alot of time mastering it.

My whole point really was saying that with the 60D I've never had such "Sharp" results at F1.8/2 before they were always a tad soft and so far I've been amazed at the difference in sharpness when it actually does land spot on. I won't know exactly how this lens performs till I start shooting in real life, if I notice it's front or back then I'll adjust then but like you said... I'm gonna go out and shoot, main priority!

Here is one example that I took earlier this year. Now this is slightly cropped but it was center point focused on his face, servo mode and while looks pretty good the basketball that is closer to the camera is sharper and showed more detail, I'm not sure if you can see it or not in this downsized image but gives you an idea of my "real world experience" with the lens.

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Talley wrote in post #14794638
Only reason I upgraded was to get MA capability. Got my 7D in the mail yesterday and instantly strapped on the 85mm 1.8. First pic is before MA and second is after (-4)
All I can say is this camera is perfect

Congrats on the 7D!
One question, what is MA?

sorry but I just don't feel like looking it up..
Thanks

Talley wrote in post #14796274
I do adjust from infinity and close range and check that way but for my past experience no matter what kind of studio test you do it's the real world tests that matter.

There you mention another thing. Although the 7D has the iFCL metering system, which also feeds information to the AF system about the frequency content of the available light, so that the AF system can compensate for the different characteristics of different wavelengths, I've noticed that focus adjustment done in artificial lighting isn't always applicable in daylight outdoors.
Canon themselves are barking under the same tree, since they do give the advice to make your micro adjustment in the actual shooting environment. They actually more or less say you have to redo it for every new location, but I doubt anyone cares about doing that.

When it comes to using the AF system, make sure you spend some time getting the feel for the difference you get if you select different AF point patterns, as well as when you change the custom functions that are there to fine tune the AF system performance. They are mainly applicable when you use Servo AF. It takes a lot of practice to get the best setup and good results when it's difficult to focus on the right thing. But you can be certain that the 7D can deliver very well here, when you handle it right.

Even when tracking runners close to the near focusing limit the 7D Servo AF can deliver images in focus.

MA = micro adjustment for lenses

kinghong1970 wrote in post #14796382
MA = micro adjustment for lenses

AHHH, Thanks kinghong!

Interesting! So how can you micro adjust lenses with a 7D?

Umm...I may be asking a really NOOB question, huh?!

DreamMaker23 wrote in post #14796404
Interesting! So how can you micro adjust lenses with a 7D?

When using phase detection AF, a camera measures how far the focus is off, and in which direction. The lens then gets a focusing order from the processor in the camera, to set the focus at the calculated distance.
The lens executes this operation, and then the camera assumes it did it correctly and triggers the shutter.
This is why phase detection AF is so fast. Measure, set, ready. But if there for example is a slight misalignment of the AF sensor in the camera, focus will be off with some amount, in front of or behind the subject.
Likewise, if one lens runs a bit too far, and another a bit too short, then these two lenses will not focus properly, even on a perfectly adjusted camera body.

Micro focus adjustment is a rudimentary tool to counter such imperfections.
If your lenses are all good, but the camera is off, you can apply a global adjustment, that will be the same for all lenses.
It's also possible to store individual corrections for each type of lens. Up to 20 lens types can be registered in the 7D.
If a zoom lens behaves differently in the short and long end, you may not be able to solve it with MA in a 7D. Some newer cameras offer two different adjustments, one for the wide and one for the tele end of the focal range. Better than before, but in a workshop, they can adjust a modern zoom lens at eight different intermediate positIons along the zoom range.

In many cases you don't need this setting. The images I linked into my post above are both taken with no MA applied. I do however have one single lens that's useless for AF on my 40D, but works fine on my 7D. It took 12 units of adjustment (max is 20) to make my EF 50 mm f/1.4 USM work on the 7D, but with that applied, it's excellent. Out of focus all the time on the 40D, though. So that lens would have required that I returned it for warranty service, probably together with the camera, to make it useful had the 7D not had the MA capability.

apersson850 wrote in post #14796493
When using phase detection AF, a camera measures how far the focus is off, and in which direction. The lens then gets a focusing order from the processor in the camera, to set the focus at the calculated distance.
The lens executes this operation, and then the camera assumes it did it correctly and triggers the shutter.
This is why phase detection AF is so fast. Measure, set, ready. But if there for example is a slight misalignment of the AF sensor in the camera, focus will be off with some amount, in front of or behind the subject.
Likewise, if one lens runs a bit too far, and another a bit too short, then these two lenses will not focus properly, even on a perfectly adjusted camera body.

Micro focus adjustment is a rudimentary tool to counter such imperfections.
If your lenses are all good, but the camera is off, you can apply a global adjustment, that will be the same for all lenses.
It's also possible to store individual corrections for each type of lens. Up to 20 lens types can be registered in the 7D.
If a zoom lens behaves differently in the short and long end, you may not be able to solve it with MA in a 7D. Some newer cameras offer two different adjustments, one for the wide and one for the tele end of the focal range. Better than before, but in a workshop, they can adjust a modern zoom lens at eight different intermediate positons along the zoom range.

In many cases you don't need this setting. The images I linked into my post above are both taken with no MA applied. I do however have one single lens that's useless for AF on my 40D, but works fine on my 7D. It took 12 units of adjustment (max is 20) to make my EF 50 mm f/1.4 USM work on the 7D, but with that applied, it's excellent. Out of focus all the time on the 40D, though. So that lens would have required that I returned it for warranty service, probably together with the camera, to make it useful had the 7D not had the MA capability.

Wow, thanks for this great info! Thanks alot
Well said apersson850!

DreamMaker23 wrote in post #14796404
AHHH, Thanks kinghong!

Interesting! So how can you micro adjust lenses with a 7D?

Umm...I may be asking a really NOOB question, huh?!

Page 5 of this Canon overview describes it about as well as the manual does.

http://cpn.canon-europe.com …om_functions_ex​plained.do

apersson850 wrote in post #14794878
I doubt that. Even if you use spot focus on a 7D, the focus point is larger than what's depicted in the viewfinder. If you use a normal single point focus setting, it's very much larger than the box you see in the viewfinder. To get the focus into a hole like that is tricky.
Besides, an adjustment of only four units would probably not be enough to shift focus that far, from the mask to the eye.

Note that in low light One Shot AF is more sensitive than Servo AF, since One Shot AF is given longer exposure time for the AF sensor, as well as a longer time to focus. This is true even if you set Servo AF to focus priority.

MA is an acronym for Micro focus Adjustment. A kind of simple calibration of lens and/or camera focusing, which you can do in the camera itself. Not as elaborate as they can do in the workshops, but better than nothing.

I tend to agree with you here, theres no way -4 would be that much of a difference to that shot. I think you missed focus and caught it on the edge of the mask beside his right eye.

dexy101 wrote in post #14799967
I tend to agree with you here, theres no way -4 would be that much of a difference to that shot. I think you missed focus and caught it on the edge of the mask beside his right eye.

-4 would basically be the distance of 1/2 the DOF of that shot. So basically, in American units, the DOF is close to about 2 inches (85mm at f2 on a crop body at 8'), so a -4 adjustment would change focus by 1 inch.

This is more than enough to shift focus from eyes to nose, however, simply based on the content of the shot, it would be nearly impossible to tell the AF to focus on the eyes and not the closer more contrasty mask.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #14799661
Page 5 of this Canon overview describes it about as well as the manual does.

http://cpn.canon-europe.com …om_functions_ex​plained.do

Cool TeamSpeed!
Thanks for this...
I'm about to print this to keep it in file!