Paypal gift.... Be verrryyyyy careful

PayPal is shady to begin with, but I see no wisdom in purchasing via "gift". All you're doing then is forfeiting what little protections do exist.

KirkS518 wrote in post #14846121
Why are you buying this in the first place?



You're lucky the seller is a nice guy, albeit not too bright if he got his own email wrong. If the seller didn't ask for it to be sent as a gift, why in the world would you send it as a gift? The % comes out of the seller's side.

In any case, if the other party does refund you the money, consider yourself very fortunate. But seeing how you circumvented the system once, I think there may be a chance the seller will never see his money. Just sayin'.

I am not trying to justify anything.

Not that it matters or is anyone's business. But, I have been wanting one for a while. Wife said it would be ok just so I came up with the extra money. So , I sold some items.

Not trying to justify anything. It clearly says "payment owed".

photoguy6405 wrote in post #14846143
PayPal is shady to begin with, but I see no wisdom in purchasing via "gift". All you're doing then is forfeiting what little protections do exist.

Agreed. Very shady.

It clearly says "Purchases". You didn't owe the person money, you were purchasing something.

It clearly says payment owed. Look

I see it, but you clearly don't see the entire tab that is specifically for purchases, which is what you were making. Try justifying it to yourself all you want. The point is that you were violating PayPal's usage policy and you got burned.

Nope. I did not get burned. It also has a tab for personal use that says "payment" owed. There is only one way you make a payment and that is if you buy something.

Okay so you burned a seller if he ships without getting money. You can try to justify it to yourself all you want, but the money was not sent as PayPal intends it to be sent for purchases.

Best of luck with the job search.

let us know if you get your money back.

PeteD wrote in post #14846054
Word it however you want. If you find something and pick it up, it is stealing. Does not matter if it is a penny or a thousand bucks. It did not belong to you. If you do not pay full retail whether the seller agrees or not is the same. You did not pay what it is worth.

So no one needs to come with the whole Holier then thou stuff.

Are you serious?

If I find a pound coin in the middle of nowhere, with no way of identifying who it might belong to, there is no way I can get it back to it's true owner. The police won't want to know if I try and hand it in. If I find anything (and I mean anything) that could be traced back to the owner, or is somewhere that I can hand it in, where the owner might claim it, then I do so.

As for negotiating a price with a seller being stealing that is just a joke. If you go to a car dealership and buy a car, then pay the sticker price on the windscreen they will laugh all the way to the bank. They expect people to haggle and get a discount, the prices allow for that. I am a trader myself, I let people negotiate on my prices, I am happy to sell them stuff at a negotiated price we are both comfortable with. I do not think they are stealing from me because I knocked 10% off the marked price.

Yet, you seem to be OK with this paypal thing and even try to justify it as the way it should be done ??

PeteD wrote in post #14846054
As for Paypal , there is a whole section of things to which you do not have to pay a fee. Including Payment owed. Which means you owed money for something you bought or services rendered.

Let's look at that paypal section you posted shall we? The bit you used to show you are in the right?

Firstly, lets look at the wording above the tabs "You can pay for purchases and services or send money to friends and family". How is that hard to understand? It is only free to send money to friends and family, payment for purchases (as in this case) attracts a fee.

This "payment owed" section is, yes, in the whole area that is free. That whole area is clearly marked "personal" - that is for payments to friends and family ONLY. I lent a friend £500 a couple of weeks ago, if he wishes to repay me by paypal that comes under payment owed. It does not, as you claim, mean payment owed for something you purchased. That does not come under the "personal" tab, it comes under the "purchase" tab, where you pay a fee. The options are clear in the wording above "you can pay for purchases and services (purchase tab) or send money to friends and family (personal tab)",

You however decided that didn't apply to you, so chose to make a false declaration (I'm just repaying a debt I owe to a friend, or member of my family) to avoid paying the fee. The ridiculous thing is, it isn't you who should pay the fee, it comes out of the seller's money. Did they try and pass the fee over to you, or ask you to do this?

From a photographers perspective, I licence images people want to use (on the internet for example) for a fee. I also state that they may download them free for personal use (which is defined as being stored on their computer, no publication, no uploading to the web) or for educational use (defined as being included in a school project or a thesis) with a credit.

Using your logic, someone would upload them to their personal website (for which a negotiable usage fee is payable) without permission or payment, and claim it was OK to do so as it is only "personal" use.

The Paypal site is clear to understand, the "purchase" and "personal" tabs are clear to understand. Please, don't try and make out that using the personal tab for a purchase is a legitimate way to do things.

All you guys need to chill out and get off your high horses. He did not come in here complaining that he lost his money because of paypal gift. He is just saying beware. You are making him out to be the most evil person in the world.

FlyingPhotog wrote in post #14845772
You got what you deserved for trying to job the system.

I wouldn't say anyon deserves to be gamed back, but the ToCs are clearly spelled out and he tried to circumvent the system. I blame the sellers just as much.

PeteD wrote in post #14845776
Thank you

What makes you think someone was trying to job the system? Maybe that person only took it as gifts. Or a myriad of other reasons.

Then don't deal with them. They are violating the Paypal ToC every time they accept a gift payment for a purchase and they are cheating shareholders out of $$

sandpiper wrote in post #14845826
Sorry, but the seller wanted to defraud paypal out of their due fee, it's not only against their policy, it involves you making a false declaration to avoid paying for the service you are using, and that is fraud.

Sometimes Karma sucks.

+1,000

sandpiper wrote in post #14845860
And I was just pointing out that it is fraud, of course buyers shouldn't do it.

If the seller wasn't twisting your arm to send it gift, why on earth were you doing it? It's illegal, you are the one making a false declaration to avoid the payment owed, and you are the one who is out of pocket if the seller doesn't send you the product. Don't expect help from paypal if you don't get anything, you scammed them and they aren't going to go out of their way to solve your problems.

+1,000

whmeltonjr wrote in post #14846114
Pete, you can try to make it sound like it was a payment owed, but if PayPal intended for that to be how it worked then they wouldn't have had an entirely different tab for purchases.

The very first tab that opens up when you sent a payment is for purchases, not personal. One has to want to send a personal/gift payment in order to go to the second tab.

PeteD wrote in post #14846242
It clearly says payment owed. Look

Dude, you are trying to justify it and it's not flying here. PayPal clearly has restrictions and you tried to game the system with the seller. The tab that opens up when you try to send money clearly says purchases, and you have to click the other tab. it was a conscious effort on your part to go to the other tab.

whmeltonjr wrote in post #14846252
I see it, but you clearly don't see the entire tab that is specifically for purchases, which is what you were making. Try justifying it to yourself all you want. The point is that you were violating PayPal's usage policy and you got burned.

+1,000

PeteD wrote in post #14846312
Nope. I did not get burned. It also has a tab for personal use that says "payment" owed. There is only one way you make a payment and that is if you buy something.

try and justify all you want, but you know deep down that it was clearly not the intent of that button/tab.


When I first came here I noticed that everyone waned 3% on top of their price. I'm sorry, but you are selling something, so if you accept a payment method you need to factor that in to your pricing. Trying to cheat the system just causes trouble. Shortly after I started I created a post wondering why so many people, who know people steal their work and try to protect their copyrights at all costs (they know the danger of stealing) try to game the system and violate the rules whenever they have something to gain.

Keith_D wrote in post #14847594
All you guys need to chill out and get off your high horses. He did not come in here complaining that he lost his money because of paypal gift. He is just saying beware. You are making him out to be the most evil person in the world.

I presume this is aimed at me, primarily?

Firstly, read my original post in this thread. I wasn't having a go at the OP at all. However, he escalated things and started calling ME a thief, I retaliated.

The OP stated that it was going to be the seller who was going to be out the money, I said that Karma sucks as it is generally the seller who insists on gift (or that the buyer pays the fee). I can't see any reason why a buyer would use the wrong payment method, and commit fraud, without the seller wanting them too.

The seller (I presumed) initiated the fraud, the seller is the one likely to lose their money, karma sucks was aimed at the seller. If the seller didn't suggest sending the money gift (and the OP has suggested that was the case above), and it was purely the OPs idea, then the OP has not only scammed paypal, but also potentially lost the sellers money (through no fault of theirs, as if the money was sent properly they would be protected in this situation). In the latter case, if the OP takes the flashgun, they have cost paypal their fee and lost the seller's money, but managed to come out fine, themselves. Personally, if that were the case, I would accept the fault and tell the seller to keep the goods (although I wouldn't have used gift in the first place).

So, either the seller initiated the fraud and got burned by their own greed (karma sucks) or they didn't ask for it to be sent gift, and the OP has burned the seller (but is happy to take the flashgun).

Like I say though, my initial post was aimed at the seller, the OP got personal and started accusing me of being a thief because I occasionally negotiate on price (not theft in any way) so yes, I pointed out that the excuses they were coming up with were ridiculous.

Not trying to make anyone out to be the most evil person in the world, just pointing out that bilking the system to avoid due payment can sometimes backfire.

sandpiper wrote in post #14847402
Are you serious?

If I find a pound coin in the middle of nowhere, with no way of identifying who it might belong to, there is no way I can get it back to it's true owner. The police won't want to know if I try and hand it in. If I find anything (and I mean anything) that could be traced back to the owner, or is somewhere that I can hand it in, where the owner might claim it, then I do so.

As for negotiating a price with a seller being stealing that is just a joke. If you go to a car dealership and buy a car, then pay the sticker price on the windscreen they will laugh all the way to the bank. They expect people to haggle and get a discount, the prices allow for that. I am a trader myself, I let people negotiate on my prices, I am happy to sell them stuff at a negotiated price we are both comfortable with. I do not think they are stealing from me because I knocked 10% off the marked price.

Yet, you seem to be OK with this paypal thing and even try to justify it as the way it should be done ??

Let's look at that paypal section you posted shall we? The bit you used to show you are in the right?

Firstly, lets look at the wording above the tabs "You can pay for purchases and services or send money to friends and family". How is that hard to understand? It is only free to send money to friends and family, payment for purchases (as in this case) attracts a fee.

This "payment owed" section is, yes, in the whole area that is free. That whole area is clearly marked "personal" - that is for payments to friends and family ONLY. I lent a friend £500 a couple of weeks ago, if he wishes to repay me by paypal that comes under payment owed. It does not, as you claim, mean payment owed for something you purchased. That does not come under the "personal" tab, it comes under the "purchase" tab, where you pay a fee. The options are clear in the wording above "you can pay for purchases and services (purchase tab) or send money to friends and family (personal tab)",

You however decided that didn't apply to you, so chose to make a false declaration (I'm just repaying a debt I owe to a friend, or member of my family) to avoid paying the fee. The ridiculous thing is, it isn't you who should pay the fee, it comes out of the seller's money. Did they try and pass the fee over to you, or ask you to do this?

From a photographers perspective, I licence images people want to use (on the internet for example) for a fee. I also state that they may download them free for personal use (which is defined as being stored on their computer, no publication, no uploading to the web) or for educational use (defined as being included in a school project or a thesis) with a credit.

Using your logic, someone would upload them to their personal website (for which a negotiable usage fee is payable) without permission or payment, and claim it was OK to do so as it is only "personal" use.

The Paypal site is clear to understand, the "purchase" and "personal" tabs are clear to understand. Please, don't try and make out that using the personal tab for a purchase is a legitimate way to do things.

Yes I am serious.Does not matter. It is not yours. Yoo are supposed to leave it or turn it in. I will admit though I have done it also. So , we are in the same boat.

You guys can say what you want. There is a reason there are 2 tabs. The first one is for "Ebay purchase" and the second one is for non ebay use. Wonder why? Ebay owns Paypal. This was a non Ebay ppurchase so I used the personal tab.

It does not say for payment of friends and family only.........

I am done with it. Those who care will see it and take heed.

This thread was intended to help others prevent making the same mistakes. Typical keyboard jockies come out of the woodwork. It's ok though. They are on all sites.

Have a good Sunday everyone

Pete, if you think there is one tab for eBay purchase, you are a lost cause. Nowhere does it say for eBay purchases only. It says "You can pay for purchases and services" and NOWHERE on that page does it say ANYTHING about being for eBay. You keep sticking your head in the sand and ignoring the truth.