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FORUMS General Gear Talk Camera Bags, Backpacks & Cases 
Thread started 16 Aug 2012 (Thursday) 18:10
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Luma Cinch fanboys...show me what you got!

 
ten31
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Nov 21, 2013 16:30 |  #1351

gakoenig wrote in post #16464063 (external link)
As the guy who designed the Cinch, I don't think the Air is a ripoff.

The idea for the Cinch came directly from my experience with military gear where sliding adjuster mechanisms are quite common (Blue Force Gear's Vickers sling, Kyle Lamb's VTAC, Magpul's MS series, etc). We simply adapted the concept to cameras. Even before us, a Japanese outfit had the Digital Ninja strap that sorta did the quick adjust deal, but was a very simple webbing sling without the comfort of a shoulder pad.

I bring a very strong set of opinions to camera strap design. I strive for minimalism (as much as possible while offering the features we see as critical), I despise excess strap hanging about and I have a massive aversion to leaving things stuck on your camera that aren't very unobtrusive (the membrane connector), add value on their own (our Arca plate) or can be very quickly removed (the New New Thing out in a couple of weeks).

To be honest, to some people, those opinions are at odds with what they want out of a camera strap and that is OK! This is a boutique, cottage industry with dozens of little guys like us making all kinds of permutations of strap. CSLR's Air is a different take on the quick adjust sling concept. So is the Joby Ultra. So is the Digital Ninja.

Also, we know the CSLR guys in passing and they are good folks who make quality products and execute them really well. The thing BR seems to not understand is that we aren't competition for one another; we all compete against the crappy, free strap that ships with your camera. I'm happy to see the Air come out; a rising tide raises all boats.

Thank you for the time you spend here explaining things. I've never bought anything from Luma but your candidness will certainly be a factor in my next purchase.


Canon EOS 6D | 24-105mm f/4 IS USM | 85mm f/1.8 | 430EX II | Mefoto Roadtrip | RC6 remote

  
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DaveKosiba
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Nov 21, 2013 21:13 |  #1352

Received my Luma Labs Cinch V1 this evening. So far I really like it, it has several features that like over the BR strap, one of which is there is no metal near my camera to cause scratches. I plan on taking it for a test drive tomorrow but as it stands now I think I will be selling my BR strap very soon.


EOS 6D MkII, Tamron 24-70 2.8 VC, 85 1.8, 70-200L f/4 IS, 16-35 f/4L IS, 430 EXII, Luma Cinch Strap

  
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TejasPOWER
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Nov 22, 2013 17:57 |  #1353

It's been a while since I have been here, I still love my Cinch V1 and all the machined components.
I will be buying the V2 w/ membrane connector for my brother, for a Christmas present.


Canon T3i | Luma CINCH | Motorsport fan -BMW, TOYOTA & MINI | BMWCCA (external link) | TTORA (external link)
Always looking to learn and to be better than before.

  
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iazybandit
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Nov 28, 2013 01:15 |  #1354

Got my Cinch 2 and will have a full review of it. Anyone thought of using op/techs reporter/backpack connectors as a quick disconnect?

http://optechusa.com …rs/reporter-backpack.html (external link)


Canon :: R6 | RP | 5D Mark IV
Glass :: RF 24-70L f/2.8 IS | RF 35mm f/1.8 IS STM | EF 16-35L f2.8 | EF 70-200 f2.8L III | EF 24-70L f2.8 II | EF 50mm f/1.8 STM
FULL GEAR LIST | FEEDBACK
FS: Custom SLR M-Plate Pro Arca Swiss Tripod Plate; BRNO dri+Cap Dehumidifier Body/Lens Cap | SpiderHolster w/Speedbelt, PakPod, Gorillapod Focus

  
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DaveKosiba
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Nov 28, 2013 07:19 |  #1355

1KIND wrote in post #16485756 (external link)
Got my Cinch 2 and will have a full review of it. Anyone thought of using op/techs reporter/backpack connectors as a quick disconnect?

http://optechusa.com …rs/reporter-backpack.html (external link)

Those seem nice enough although for me it would add too much length to the strap. I would like to find a very short QR solution. The QR links that Luma Labs has on their website are okay but don't all that nice.

Maybe something like this (external link)would also work well and be a little shorter. Only $5 ea. Another website has them for $2.95. (external link) Although, they even seem a little long and would need to be tied off to make them shorter.

Another OP-Tech option Uni-Loop: (external link)

IMAGE: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41je0g6oOWL.jpg

Yet another, (external link) although I don't know how strong some of these QR options would be:
IMAGE: http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51KD4rH7GpL._SL1500_.jpg

EOS 6D MkII, Tamron 24-70 2.8 VC, 85 1.8, 70-200L f/4 IS, 16-35 f/4L IS, 430 EXII, Luma Cinch Strap

  
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iazybandit
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Nov 28, 2013 08:06 |  #1356

DaveKosiba wrote in post #16486056 (external link)
Those seem nice enough although for me it would add too much length to the strap. I would like to find a very short QR solution. The QR links that Luma Labs has on their website are okay but don't all that nice.

Maybe something like this (external link)would also work well and be a little shorter. Only $5 ea. Another website has them for $2.95. (external link) Although, they even seem a little long and would need to be tied off to make them shorter.

Another OP-Tech option Uni-Loop: (external link)
QUOTED IMAGE

Yet another, (external link) although I don't know how strong some of these QR options would be:
QUOTED IMAGE

Saw the uni-loop but not sure about hanging the strap from a string. I'm sure its fine.

The other one from optech looks great but more for smaller and lighter cameras. Its intended for cameras with small strap loops.


Canon :: R6 | RP | 5D Mark IV
Glass :: RF 24-70L f/2.8 IS | RF 35mm f/1.8 IS STM | EF 16-35L f2.8 | EF 70-200 f2.8L III | EF 24-70L f2.8 II | EF 50mm f/1.8 STM
FULL GEAR LIST | FEEDBACK
FS: Custom SLR M-Plate Pro Arca Swiss Tripod Plate; BRNO dri+Cap Dehumidifier Body/Lens Cap | SpiderHolster w/Speedbelt, PakPod, Gorillapod Focus

  
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DaveKosiba
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Nov 28, 2013 08:17 |  #1357

1KIND wrote in post #16486137 (external link)
Saw the uni-loop but not sure about hanging the strap from a string. I'm sure its fine.

The other one from optech looks great but more for smaller and lighter cameras. Its intended for cameras with small strap loops.

I agree, would be nice to find something small and strong.


EOS 6D MkII, Tamron 24-70 2.8 VC, 85 1.8, 70-200L f/4 IS, 16-35 f/4L IS, 430 EXII, Luma Cinch Strap

  
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dodgyexposure
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Nov 28, 2013 17:50 |  #1358

DaveKosiba wrote in post #16486056 (external link)
Those seem nice enough although for me it would add too much length to the strap. I would like to find a very short QR solution. The QR links that Luma Labs has on their website are okay but don't all that nice.

Maybe something like this (external link)would also work well and be a little shorter. Only $5 ea. Another website has them for $2.95. (external link) Although, they even seem a little long and would need to be tied off to make them shorter.

I use uni-loops as a connection system when trekking/bushwalking (hiking). I attach a pair to D-rings on my backpack shoulder straps, a pair to a toploader bag, and a pair to the camera lugs. Either the toploader or camera can then be chest mounted while walking.

After ditching the backpack, I can then attach either a normal or sling strap to either the toploader or camera.

It's quite a versatile set up.


Cheers, Damien

  
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TejasPOWER
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Nov 28, 2013 19:05 |  #1359

Received the v2, I am sure my bro will enjoy having it. The v2 looks great,with the molded components and clean look of not having a ull tag. As for me, I doubt I would get it, if I ever had to replace my v1 Cinch. The v1, imho, is better than v2. Nothing bets having machine components and the pull tab. :)


Canon T3i | Luma CINCH | Motorsport fan -BMW, TOYOTA & MINI | BMWCCA (external link) | TTORA (external link)
Always looking to learn and to be better than before.

  
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gakoenig
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Nov 29, 2013 17:50 |  #1360

TejasPOWER wrote in post #16487216 (external link)
Nothing bets having machine components and the pull tab. :)

You would be amazed at how many people during the Cinch V1's time would write us, bothered by the notion of the metal milled hardware scratching their camera... We're talking 4-5 emails a week.

Of course, that paled in comparison to how difficult it was to keep the V1 in stock. Milled bits are lovely, but as a small scale manufacturer, demand fluctuates WAY too much and with our cost for the V1 milled bits being about $20, we couldn't be in a position to, say, bet the company and just order 2000 sets of V1 hardware at a time.


http://lu.ma (external link), greg@luma-labs.com (external link)

  
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iazybandit
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Nov 29, 2013 22:52 |  #1361

gakoenig wrote in post #16489027 (external link)
You would be amazed at how many people during the Cinch V1's time would write us, bothered by the notion of the metal milled hardware scratching their camera... We're talking 4-5 emails a week.

Of course, that paled in comparison to how difficult it was to keep the V1 in stock. Milled bits are lovely, but as a small scale manufacturer, demand fluctuates WAY too much and with our cost for the V1 milled bits being about $20, we couldn't be in a position to, say, bet the company and just order 2000 sets of V1 hardware at a time.

The metal milled in plastic molded form like on the v2 wouldn't work?


Canon :: R6 | RP | 5D Mark IV
Glass :: RF 24-70L f/2.8 IS | RF 35mm f/1.8 IS STM | EF 16-35L f2.8 | EF 70-200 f2.8L III | EF 24-70L f2.8 II | EF 50mm f/1.8 STM
FULL GEAR LIST | FEEDBACK
FS: Custom SLR M-Plate Pro Arca Swiss Tripod Plate; BRNO dri+Cap Dehumidifier Body/Lens Cap | SpiderHolster w/Speedbelt, PakPod, Gorillapod Focus

  
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gakoenig
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Nov 30, 2013 14:59 |  #1362

The metal milled in plastic molded form like on the v2 wouldn't work?

Like V2 hardware, but machined in aluminum? Or do you mean V2 plastic with the pull tab?

I don't know if that's your question, but I'll expand on something people have been curious about and say that the original design intent of V2 was to retain the pull tab. As we brought the designs to our injection molder though, the space required to get the mold to close completely around the "bridge" that the pull-tab connects to made the slide bigger and bigger. We iterated on the design and got it as small as possible, but it wound up being on the order of 3.5" in length, which is huge. That amount of bulk got to be annoying to have on your chest and led to problems with the Cinch's geometry.

We didn't like that, so we iterated on other concepts. In one, we retained the pull tab but changed the configuration of the webbing so the sliding part would be on the underside (eliminating the need for the bridge feature to connect the pull-tab, as on the V1 milled hardware). We found the friction of the webbing against the user was very high, prone to wear on clothes and super annoying. The other iteration is what became the Cinch V2 hardware; by eliminating the pull-tab, we could optimize the slide geometry to be *super* smooth and make the slide quite compact. So compact in fact, that we go with slides on both the front and back. As soon as we tried the 3D printed versions of the V2 slide, we knew it was a winner in virtually every respect, even though we personally love the pull-tab feature as much as everyone else seemed to.

Run a V1 and a V2 side by side, and the V2 pull tab is superior in every possible way, except for the fact that you miss the cool-looking pull tab. It's smaller, lighter, stronger, modular, operates far more smoothly and causes less wear on the webbing.


http://lu.ma (external link), greg@luma-labs.com (external link)

  
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DaveKosiba
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Nov 30, 2013 18:21 |  #1363

I'm a Mechanical Engineer and have been designing plastic parts for over 20 years. It's a bit difficult to fully understand the tooling issues you are attempting to explain without seeing the problem first hand. However I don't see anything on the V1 design that I could not do in plastic design and retain the pull tab. I've worked with some really knowledgeable Tooling Engineers at some of the top Plastic Injection Mold companies in both the US and China and I'm always impressed on how we have collectively been been able to figure out how to mold some fairly complex parts. Be it slides, lifters, exploding tools, what have you. Yes, the tooling can get very expensive, and maybe as a smaller company, tooling cost is a limitation that needed to be considered.

I have not tried a V2 Cinch but I really am liking the V1 that I purchased from another individual few weeks ago.


EOS 6D MkII, Tamron 24-70 2.8 VC, 85 1.8, 70-200L f/4 IS, 16-35 f/4L IS, 430 EXII, Luma Cinch Strap

  
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iazybandit
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Nov 30, 2013 23:19 |  #1364

gakoenig wrote in post #16490833 (external link)
Like V2 hardware, but machined in aluminum? Or do you mean V2 plastic with the pull tab?

I don't know if that's your question, but I'll expand on something people have been curious about and say that the original design intent of V2 was to retain the pull tab. As we brought the designs to our injection molder though, the space required to get the mold to close completely around the "bridge" that the pull-tab connects to made the slide bigger and bigger. We iterated on the design and got it as small as possible, but it wound up being on the order of 3.5" in length, which is huge. That amount of bulk got to be annoying to have on your chest and led to problems with the Cinch's geometry.

We didn't like that, so we iterated on other concepts. In one, we retained the pull tab but changed the configuration of the webbing so the sliding part would be on the underside (eliminating the need for the bridge feature to connect the pull-tab, as on the V1 milled hardware). We found the friction of the webbing against the user was very high, prone to wear on clothes and super annoying. The other iteration is what became the Cinch V2 hardware; by eliminating the pull-tab, we could optimize the slide geometry to be *super* smooth and make the slide quite compact. So compact in fact, that we go with slides on both the front and back. As soon as we tried the 3D printed versions of the V2 slide, we knew it was a winner in virtually every respect, even though we personally love the pull-tab feature as much as everyone else seemed to.

Run a V1 and a V2 side by side, and the V2 pull tab is superior in every possible way, except for the fact that you miss the cool-looking pull tab. It's smaller, lighter, stronger, modular, operates far more smoothly and causes less wear on the webbing.

V2 plastic with pull tab


Canon :: R6 | RP | 5D Mark IV
Glass :: RF 24-70L f/2.8 IS | RF 35mm f/1.8 IS STM | EF 16-35L f2.8 | EF 70-200 f2.8L III | EF 24-70L f2.8 II | EF 50mm f/1.8 STM
FULL GEAR LIST | FEEDBACK
FS: Custom SLR M-Plate Pro Arca Swiss Tripod Plate; BRNO dri+Cap Dehumidifier Body/Lens Cap | SpiderHolster w/Speedbelt, PakPod, Gorillapod Focus

  
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gakoenig
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Dec 01, 2013 20:42 |  #1365

DaveKosiba wrote in post #16491212 (external link)
I'm a Mechanical Engineer and have been designing plastic parts for over 20 years. It's a bit difficult to fully understand the tooling issues you are attempting to explain without seeing the problem first hand. However I don't see anything on the V1 design that I could not do in plastic design and retain the pull tab. I've worked with some really knowledgeable Tooling Engineers at some of the top Plastic Injection Mold companies in both the US and China and I'm always impressed on how we have collectively been been able to figure out how to mold some fairly complex parts. Be it slides, lifters, exploding tools, what have you. Yes, the tooling can get very expensive, and maybe as a smaller company, tooling cost is a limitation that needed to be considered.

A pull-tab slide is totally manufacturable. To get more specific; the bridge feature the pull-tab connects to requires a fairly deep feature in the mold with a lot of shutoff surface. By the time we modified the part around those requirements, the part had grown in length tremendously. It should be noted that we're also using a proprietary material that requires significantly larger shutoff surfaces; it is a polyurethane with 20-30mm long carbon fibers that comprise over 70% of the volume of the material (by weight).

By the time all was said and done, the design decision came down to either having a compact part that slides super smooth but has no pull-tab, or have a giant slide (1.25" longer) that doesn't slide as smoothly but has a pull-tab. When we A:B tested prototypes, that decision became super clear.


http://lu.ma (external link), greg@luma-labs.com (external link)

  
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Luma Cinch fanboys...show me what you got!
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