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Thread started 21 Aug 2012 (Tuesday) 23:54
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Tonemapping exercise...

 
kirkt
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Aug 21, 2012 23:54 |  #1

So, a lot of folks try to squeeze out a final image from their HDR application of choice, with no intention of using the toned image as the starting point for further adjustments. Others try to get most of the way there in the HDR application, and make some final tweaks outside of that application. Still others insist that HDR applications are the starting point, and that image editors are really where the final image takes shape.

To each their own, for sure.

For folks new to HDR, the tendency is to plop some images into an HDR merge, twiddle the dials and save the result as a JPEG for posting - sometimes these images get criticized as overdone, etc. and the OP asks what they can do to improve the image/workflow. Often the suggestion is made (at least by me ;) ) that the OP can benefit from using the HDR application as a step in the process, rather than a one-stop-shop. I usually encourage using the HDR application to do the merge and a gentle tonal compression to get all of that dynamic range to fit into a 16-bit histogram ready to be massaged elsewhere, like photoshop. But I can understand that folks might not exactly understand what I am trying to encourage, so here is an example.

This image set was part of a focus stack + HDR + panorama experiment that was discussed in another thread. I shot 5 images 2EV per step with a 5DII and the 24-105. The scene itself was a rather dark room illuminated indirectly with strong afternoon backlighting making the scene outside the window super bright compared to the interior space. Focus in this particular image set was on the copper kettle.

Here is the "gentle tonal compression" following the merge to 32bit, performed in HDR Expose2:

IMAGE: http://kirkt.smugmug.com/Photography/Photo-of-the-Day/i-WNcMkKk/0/X3/MG0016-0005-straightout-X3.jpg

Admittedly, this image lacks pizzazz and the overall global contrast is wrong. The whole scene looks washed out (global contrast) and the local details are covered in a haze (local contrast). Perfect place to start, actually. Note the inset histogram - it shows me that I managed to squeeze all of the meaningful tonal data into the 16bit histogram, actually leaving a little bit of room on the head and tail to give me some leeway in post - that's all that I wanted to accomplish in the HDR application, nothing more. Leave the prettying up to more suitable tools.

So, once you have this good starting point, you can pretty much use any approach you want. I chose to go with a hybrid of what I see some folks do - I opened the 16bit TIFF in ACR and did some adjustments there, followed by some final tweaks in PSCS6.

Here is the result:

IMAGE: http://kirkt.smugmug.com/Photography/Photo-of-the-Day/i-KpWjrvq/0/X3/MG0016-0005-2-X3.jpg

Now that's better. Reestablished the global contrast and local contrast to what the scene was really like. Note the inset histogram - although you were not present in this scene, you can imagine a dark room with a bright window portal - this is more like the histogram you would expect for such a scene, given the amount of area portrayed as dark room versus the smaller area portrayed as bright window. It is often helpful to think in terms of visualizing the histogram when going through such an exercise, as it often informs the adjustments you want to make to achieve the final tonal balance.

Trying to get this result straight out of an HDR application may be easy or impossible, given the wide range of tools available; however, this approach can be used for any HDR application and can include an interim step in which the full 32bit file is compressed in PS (i.e., outside of the HDR application) for further LDR editing. Lots of choices.

So, when someone says (or at least when I say) that you might consider starting with a gentle toning and conversion to LDR for further editing outside of your favorite HDR application, this is what I mean, at least. The gently toned image does not look real nice, but it is a nice meaty set of data with which to work your magic. This concept is similar to what you may see when looking into shooting video with a Canon dSLR and using a flat, neutral or similar picture style, or a fancy custom one like the Marvels or Cinestyle ones - reduce contrast during capture and then color grade with good starting data to get the final look.

Have fun! Hope this helps.

kirk

Here is a side-by-side to help compare the two images, visually.

IMAGE: http://kirkt.smugmug.com/Photography/Photo-of-the-Day/i-xQ2g7n2/0/X3/MG0016-0005Comp-X3.jpg

Kirk
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Pebal
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Aug 22, 2012 02:53 |  #2

I propose to increase the local contrast. The easiest way to use the SNS-HDR Lite (used natural profile).

IMAGE: http://www.sns-hdr.home.pl/images/MG0016-0005-2-X3-HDR_Natural.jpg



  
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kirkt
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Aug 22, 2012 09:44 |  #3

Hi Pebal - in performing that operation, the perceived contrast that actually occurs when viewing interior spaces/objects in the context of strong, bright backlighting, becomes significantly decreased compared to the actual scene. While the operation you performed may likely be more visually interesting, in that you can see details on the foreground objects, etc., it appears unnatural to me because when I view a scene like this, the strong contrast between dark foreground and light background diminishes my ability to simultaneously perceive the details in both the foreground and background.

In my final image, I am trying to replicate this large contrast, and I think it also challenges the viewer to examine the image more carefully, noticing the details that are not immediately obvious but can be found through taking time to explore the shadow tones.

Does this make sense?

Thanks for your input!

kirk


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ejenner
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Aug 22, 2012 22:42 as a reply to  @ kirkt's post |  #4

I agree entirely. How much local contrast to add is IMO a matter of taste (I add it in the tonemapping step before increasing the overall and semi-local contrast though). I'll often start with something even flatter than that pictured above for scenes with less DR.

In any case I think for more natural HDR it is much better to start with something that looks quite flat and work from there.

Of course it does take more time, but my attitude is why bother taking the photo is you're not going to take the time to present it well?

Well I went though the trouble to type that, so I may as well post an example. After HDR/final image.

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Gators1
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Aug 23, 2012 15:10 |  #5

Great post Kirk! Thanks for taking the time to share this.




  
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kirkt
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Aug 23, 2012 19:30 |  #6

@ejenner - yep, you get what I'm saying.

@Gators1 - You're welcome.

kirk


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Bsmooth
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Aug 29, 2012 11:28 as a reply to  @ kirkt's post |  #7

I find this happens quite a bit after tonemapping. My problem occurs when i bring the tonemapped image into Photoshop, and bringing back the "pop" as some might say.
Regardless of how hard I try and use levels and masks, curve adjustments, doing 2 different takes in my HDR program and blending, I still seem to wind up with, what most would call a "flat" image.
I have have tried boosting contrast, and even in some cases lowering it,
I am also having difficulty as well since I just switched over to Photoshop CS6 from CS3, especially with cropping, but thats a seperate issue that I haven't found an answer to either.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "local" vs "Global" contrast, or what really important, how to do it exactly.
The other thing by increasing contrast, I seem to get a lot of noise as well, which adds to the things that need to be fixed.
Bruce
BTW I'm using either a 20D or !DMk2, but mostly the 20D for HDR.


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tmcman
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Aug 30, 2012 00:59 |  #8

Good example. Thanks.


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ejenner
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Aug 30, 2012 18:05 |  #9

Bsmooth wrote in post #14922163 (external link)
I find this happens quite a bit after tonemapping. My problem occurs when i bring the tonemapped image into Photoshop, and bringing back the "pop" as some might say.
Regardless of how hard I try and use levels and masks, curve adjustments, doing 2 different takes in my HDR program and blending, I still seem to wind up with, what most would call a "flat" image.
I have have tried boosting contrast, and even in some cases lowering it,
I am also having difficulty as well since I just switched over to Photoshop CS6 from CS3, especially with cropping, but thats a seperate issue that I haven't found an answer to either.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "local" vs "Global" contrast, or what really important, how to do it exactly.
The other thing by increasing contrast, I seem to get a lot of noise as well, which adds to the things that need to be fixed.
Bruce
BTW I'm using either a 20D or !DMk2, but mostly the 20D for HDR.


Well I see at least 3 scales of contrast adjustment relevant to this discussion:

1. small scale - like clarity slider, USM with small amount and large radius or the slider in tone-mapping software controlling the 'local' contrast (the last one usually works on a slightly larger area than the other two though).
2. medium - normally achieved by dodging and burning areas of the photo. maybe just increasing contrast in parts of the clouds, of in the window in the first image.
3. global - using levels/curves.

Yes, I do get that this process does significantly increase noise. On my T1i, doing anything major resulted in noise above ISO400 for sure. Even with the 5DII, I see some noise in some cases with ISO100 shots even when I've included some NR before starting the HDR.

I agree it can need some careful processing, especially with skies. But applying NR in the raw conversion before HDR and possibly applying more NR to skies and less detailed areas helps a lot.

I might go though the whole processes, saving my settings, then go back to the raw files, reprocess them, and repeat the HDR/tonemapping + adjustments a couple of times for tricky images.


Edward Jenner
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IslandCrow
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Sep 05, 2012 13:48 |  #10

Very nice explanation of your process, and just in time as I just came back from a National Parks photo trip and have a few prime candidates ready for editing. So far, I haven't created many HDR images I'm especially pleased with, and it may very well be because I was trying to do too much within the HDR software itself, and ironically ending up having to go back and clean up many of the flaws I felt I introduced through the tone mapping process.




  
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Bsmooth
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Sep 06, 2012 09:04 as a reply to  @ IslandCrow's post |  #11

You may also want to take a look at this thread about editing contrast, pretty interesting as well.
https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1224722


Bruce

  
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Tonemapping exercise...
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