Major issues with Aperture 3.3.2 + RAW files.

I'm sure some here use Aperture to process their photos. I have used the program for about 2 years and have never had a problem with my little G-12.

Recently I bought a new T4i and a 15-85 lens. Apple just release Aperture 3.3x and now with my new camera there are issues with RAW files rendering way too dark after "loading" and "Processing" in Aperture.

Here is an example with a RAW and jpg file(s) right out of the camera with no additional PP:

Here is the RAW file:

Can you post histograms for both images? I'm pretty sure the T4i will have much more dynamic range than the G12's sensor. The flatness is, in part, due to this.

Let me guess: HTP and/or ALO are used in camera?

Tony-S wrote in post #14891363
Can you post histograms for both images? I'm pretty sure the T4i will have much more dynamic range than the G12's sensor. The flatness is, in part, due to this.

Well I don';t have he same image for both the T4i and the G-12 so no I can't.

The histogram fopr the T41...

René Damkot wrote in post #14891496
Let me guess: HTP and/or ALO are used in camera?

No I turned off HTP.

Tony-S wrote in post #14891363
Can you post histograms for both images? I'm pretty sure the T4i will have much more dynamic range than the G12's sensor. The flatness is, in part, due to this.

Well I don't have he same image for both the T4i and the G-12 so no I can't.

The histogram fopr the T41...

René Damkot wrote in post #14891496
Let me guess: HTP and/or ALO are used in camera?

No I turned off HTP.

No, I mean the histograms for the raw and the jpeg (presuming this is in-camera jpeg conversion).

Tony-S wrote in post #14891672
No, I mean the histograms for the raw and the jpeg (presuming this is in-camera jpeg conversion).

@Tony...Here are all the histrgrams from the two cameras although as I mentioned the images are different. Is this what you wanted to look at?

RAW T4i

Your jpg files will be affected by the in camera settings, the raw files won't, unless you process them with DPP.

The only fair comparison you can make is if you set all the in camera settings to zero and picture style to neutral before taking a jpg shot.

I understand all that BUT is is normal with a better camera to have such a dynamic density shift between the RAW file and the jpg? I have never experienced that to this degree. I understand there will be some difference but that much?

Also all the camera settings are set to "0" like saturation and that sort of thing. The RAW files I'm getting have no relationship whatsoever to the scenes I photographed. None.

I'm going to the camera store today and take some pictures with a 60D or something like that and compare the results. Very frustrated. Maybe I jsut don't know what to expect but frankly I was shocked at the huge disparity between the RAW and jpg files.

You said you turned off HTP but you said nothing about ALO (Auto Lighting Optimizer). Please check that setting!

What you need to realize is that all in-camera settings will affect the jpeg, whereas Aperture will ignore those settings with a Raw file and will only render the Raw data using its own processes.

ALO is an important consideration here, since it does brighten "darker" areas and as a result a jpeg will definitely look different.

If you want to only work with the Raw photos, I'd turn off ALO and only use your camera exposure settings to get the shot you want.

i-G12 wrote in post #14891999
I understand all that BUT is is normal with a better camera to have such a dynamic density shift between the RAW file and the jpg?

What you're seeing is probably normal for a T4i. I see this with my 5Dii files as well and I've been using Aperture since its release. What's interesting is the difference between the T4i and your G12. It may be because the T4i has a 14-bit sensor while the G12 has a 12-bit sensor, or because the T4i's superior dynamic range. Remember, the software is rendering a 12- or 14-bit image on a 8-bit display (assuming you have an IPS, PVA or MVA panel); if you have a TN panel then it's only 6-bit color depth. The information is in the raw image, you just have to work it more. That's one of the trade-offs with raw - a huge amount of information is in the file. JPEG, on the other hand, is an 8-bit format. When the camera's software (or any software) converts to JPEG it typically does several things, including a levels adjustment (which accounts for the contrast and brightness) and sharpening before knocking it down to 8-bit. In your T4i histograms, you can see the clipping on the dark end (left) that's absent from the JPEG (after processing). Unfortunately, the histograms are not labeled but they probably are not the same scales since the raw has much more data. Believe me, you can do A LOT more with that raw file then you can with the JPEG.

tonylong wrote in post #14892729
You said you turned off HTP but you said nothing about ALO (Auto Lighting Optimizer). Please check that setting!

Thank you I will.

Tony-S wrote in post #14892894
What you're seeing is probably normal for a T4i. I see this with my 5Dii files as well and I've been using Aperture since its release. What's interesting is the difference between the T4i and your G12. It may be because the T4i has a 14-bit sensor while the G12 has a 12-bit sensor, or because the T4i's superior dynamic range. Remember, the software is rendering a 12- or 14-bit image on a 8-bit display (assuming you have an IPS, PVA or MVA panel); if you have a TN panel then it's only 6-bit color depth. The information is in the raw image, you just have to work it more. That's one of the trade-offs with raw - a huge amount of information is in the file. JPEG, on the other hand, is an 8-bit format. When the camera's software (or any software) converts to JPEG it typically does several things, including a levels adjustment (which accounts for the contrast and brightness) and sharpening before knocking it down to 8-bit. In your T4i histograms, you can see the clipping on the dark end (left) that's absent from the JPEG (after processing). Unfortunately, the histograms are not labeled but they probably are not the same scales since the raw has much more data. Believe me, you can do A LOT more with that raw file then you can with the JPEG.

I am starting to think my photos are flat out under exposed. They are all too dark and maybe I'm relying too much on the camera to figure it out. I'm gonna to work on that and see if the results are better. I like flexibility the RAW files provide so I have to figure this out.

Frankly I think the little G-12 was a lot more forgiving and produced images that the T4i looks at differently. The G-12 for example has one focus point the T4i 9... that's a learning curve right there.

Thanks for the input.

If you post the Raw file on a free site like YouSendIt.com, it would be very easy for us to check and cross-check (using DPP and Lightroom/Camera Raw)!

tonylong wrote in post #14893860
If you post the Raw file on a free site like YouSendIt.com, it would be very easy for us to check and cross-check (using DPP and Lightroom/Camera Raw)!

Well, I did view the RAW file in LR, Aperture and Canon's own software. The results are "similar" although Aperture was the darkest of the bunch but not by a lot. That leads me to "me" as a possible culprit.

I'm working on it and will report back when I figure out why I am underexposing things.

Thanks for all the help and input.

If it's any (basic) help, or at least empathy, I have a G9 and a 5DMKII. RAW images from both of them end up looking quite different once loaded into Aperture. Once I upgraded, I realized the RAW images did look a little muddy and just gross SOOC of the 5D. I have everything set to neutral. The first image doesn't look that surprising to me, actually. And, with the new Aperture release, I think did they remove some of the in-camera adjustments, or the option to do so? We can see the nicer-looking adjustments "go away" as they are loading for the first time. I'm not sure that was much help.