? Manual Exposure in 'M' mode on T4i ?

TSchrief wrote in post #14896367
I just went back and played with the camera simulator. It seems odd that aperture has absolutely no effect on DOF. That is going to confuse people. Or at least mislead them.

I'm seeing a big background blur difference between f/2.8 and f/22.

Okay, apparently i had unwittedly taken on a bad habit by my previous camera, Kodak Z981, which allowed me to do exposure compensation (and misunderstanding it as actually changing the exposure of the images). I had understood mostly how to snap pics without this compensation. I just was stuck thinking that it was a separate controllable aspect of photography. One person said that i misunderstood exposure compensation for exposure. Thats exactly right. Thank you all. I am now able to focus fully on the proper methodolgy of exposure control. I will also check out the book mentioned here.

lostear wrote in post #14896449
Okay, apparently i had unwittedly taken on a bad habit by my previous camera, Kodak Z981, which allowed me to do exposure compensation (and misunderstanding it as actually changing the exposure of the images). I had understood mostly how to snap pics without this compensation. I just was stuck thinking that it was a separate controllable aspect of photography. One person said that i misunderstood exposure compensation for exposure. Thats exactly right. Thank you all. I am now able to focus fully on the proper methodolgy of exposure control. I will also check out the book mentioned here.

You're off and running. With your mindset, you will probably get a good grip on exposure quickly. Keep studying, thinking, and testing things out for yourself.

Exposure compensation is still a valuable (and available) tool in Tv or Av mode, of course.

TSchrief wrote in post #14896345
....Much better to jump into that 1971 Pinto and drive it like you stole it.

Why would you steal a Pinto?

waterrockets wrote in post #14896394
I'm seeing a big background blur difference between f/2.8 and f/22.

Sorry! My mistake. I just played with the settings and never actually snapped the picture. DUH!

Madwrench wrote in post #14896512
You're off and running. With your mindset, you will probably get a good grip on exposure quickly. Keep studying, thinking, and testing things out for yourself.

Exposure compensation is still a valuable (and available) tool in Tv or Av mode, of course.

I have a 500D and a 60D. Both of them do EC in Manual and Program, also. It is actually easiest in Manual, there are no extra buttons to push.

TSchrief wrote in post #14896620
Sorry! My mistake. I just played with the settings and never actually snapped the picture. DUH!

good thing you figured it out on a simulator rather than missing a shot out in the field!

TSchrief wrote in post #14896642
I have a 500D and a 60D. Both of them do EC in Manual and Program, also. It is actually easiest in Manual, there are no extra buttons to push.

Interesting, I haven't tried on my T2i. Does it only work in auto ISO? I guess even in manual ISO, it could let you set EC so it's where you want it if you're hopping between M and Tv, for instance.

You can control exposure directly with T4i (and all DSLRs I'm aware of).

First thing you need to understand what "exposure" is... and beyond that what correct exposure is.... And for that reason several have suggested you buy the book "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson... Follow the link to Amazon and order it right now. It's the best $17 you'll ever spend on your photography. That book, along with the manual that came with your camera and perhaps one of the guide books specifically for your camera are practically essential to learn to use a complex device like your new camera.

It's obvious from your questions that this is new to you and that you really need to do some readin' and learnin'.

You don't "set exposure manually" just because you want to. You set it manually because you need to... because the camera's automation will not give correct exposure.

You can't just start spinning dials and pushing buttons and expect to get good results. You have to understand the three parameters of exposure - ISO, shutter speed (Tv or Time Value) and aperture (Av or Aperture Value). You have to learn how these interact and why you would give one or the other priority over the others, then need to learn how to set those on your particular camera. (All the Rebel/xxxD series use a similar procedure, which TSchrief outlined briefly above for you.

There are a series of automated modes on your camera, along with two fully manual modes.

Put aside all the "scene modes" for now, such as the "running man/action/sports", "mountain/scenic", "flower/macro", etc. on the mode dial. Those are very highly automated modes that do more than just set exposure. They also control other camera setup factors. So just ignore them. Also ignore the "green box" fully automatic/multi-purpose mode.

That leaves P, Tv, Av, M and B. Canon calles these the "creative modes". They are the basic exposure methods on the camera.

Now, go into your camera and select an ISO.... such as 100 if outside on a sunny day, or 400 if trying to stop action, or 1600/3200 if inside or in any other lower light situation. ISO is the sensitivity of the sensor. You want to set it as low as possible to minimize image noise/maximize image quality, but high enough to allow the shutter speed and apertures you need to use.

There are two other parameters you need to set and might make different choices about, depending upon what you are trying to shoot. One is the aperture or the size of the opening in the lens. The other is the shutter speed or time it's open. Both these control the amount of light reaching the sensor.

There are a lot of times the auto exposure modes of the camera are helpful or even necessary, so learn those first (note that in all cases, you set the ISO):

P is Program... in this mode the camera sets both aperture and shutter speed automatically.

Tv is called Shutter Priority... you select the shutter speed, the camera sets a matching aperture size to try to give correct exposure.

Av is called Aperture Priority... you select the aperture size, the camera tries to set a matching shutter speed to give correct exposure.

All these are still automatic and in many circumstances will give you good exposures. There is also Exposure Compensation available, which can be used to fine tune exposure in some situations. The camera uses it's internal light meter to measure the scene (I suggest setting the meter to Evaluative and leaving it there while you learn the exposure modes).

You use Tv when you want to be sure the shutter speed is adequately fast or slow to accomplish what you want. For example, you need a fast shutter speed when you want to freeze movement. Or you might want a slow shutter speed when you want to cause some blur.

You use Av when aperture is the more important factor... when you want to use a small aperture to have very deep depth of field (everything near to far in focus) or a large aperture to cause shallow depth of field (such as a portrait, where a busy background behind the subject is blurred).

P is general purpose, and a good choice if shooting fast and you just don't have time to think about it.

If the camera blinks something in the viewfinder, you are outside the range where it's possible to take a correct exposure and need to adjust something to get back in the range. For example, shutter speed or aperture readout might flash if underexposing, and you need to go to ISO and turn it up. Or turn it down if overexposing. So, watch for anything flashing in the viewfinder!

M and B are the two manual modes offered by your camera... In these you have to set everything correctly to get a correct exposure. Lighting has to be steady (or subject has to be staying in the same light) for manual modes to be a practical choice.

M is for exposure speeds between 1/4000 second (on your camera) and 30 seconds. If you want longer exposure than that, you an use B or "Bulb", press the shutter release and hold it as long as you want the shutter to remain open (often best done with a remote release, so you don't bump the camera).

To set these accurately means taking a light reading with the camera's built-in meter or with a separate handheld meter... or learning to judge proper exposure by eye (yes, that really is possible).

For now I'd suggest you just set your camera to the "green box" or P and enjoy it. If something flashes in the viewfinder, raise or lower the ISO.

Then buy the book Understanding Exposure, study the manual and augment that with one of the guide books for your camera. There's far more to it than we can detail here. And it takes time to learn, so practice, take a class, join a photo club, go out and shoot. Enjoy your camera and don't get bogged down. You don't have to use "manual" just because people tell you that you should. There are plenty of times that the more automated modes are a better choice. The trick is learning when to use what to mode.

EDIT: TSchrief is incorrect... EC (Exposure Compensation) is not available in Manual mode. EC is only provided as a means of tweaking and overriding the auto exposure modes (P, Tv and Av) to correct for some inaccuracies that are inherent to them. In M mode, the same scale that's used for EC in the auto exposure modes is instead used as a light meter readout. If you set the various factors (ISO, shutter speed and aperture) so that the indicator is exactly centered, you will get exactly the same exposure that the camera would have set in one of the auto exposure modes. Since you are controlling it manually, you can bias it toward slight over or underexposure, which has the same effect as using EC in an auto exposure mode.

waterrockets wrote in post #14896667
good thing you figured it out on a simulator rather than missing a shot out in the field!

Interesting, I haven't tried on my T2i. Does it only work in auto ISO? I guess even in manual ISO, it could let you set EC so it's where you want it if you're hopping between M and Tv, for instance.

When using a real camera, I rarely forget to press the shutter button. I have been laughed at by little kids for not taking off the lens cap, though.

I don't use EC with Auto ISO. In Tv, use EC as normal. In Manual, just put the needle where you want it using shutter and aperture controls. If you want -1 EC, just set the needle to -1 using either shutter or aperture. That is EC, without using any other buttons.

TSchrief wrote in post #14896642
I have a 500D and a 60D. Both of them do EC in Manual and Program, also. It is actually easiest in Manual, there are no extra buttons to push.

I suggest you read page 277 of your 60D User Manual. It clearly states that Exposure Compensation is only available in Program, Shutter Priority, and Aperture Priority modes.

amfoto1 wrote in post #14896694
You don't "set exposure manually" just because you want to.

EDIT: TSchrief is incorrect... EC (Exposure Compensation) is not available in Manual mode. EC is only provided as a means of tweaking and overriding the auto exposure modes (P, Tv and Av) to correct for some inaccuracies that are inherent to them. In M mode, the same scale that's used for EC in the auto exposure modes is instead used as a light meter readout. If you set the various factors (ISO, shutter speed and aperture) so that the indicator is exactly centered, you will get exactly the same exposure that the camera would have set in one of the auto exposure modes. Since you are controlling it manually, you can bias it toward slight over or underexposure, which has the same effect as using EC in an auto exposure mode.

I agree with most of your post. I deleted everything I agree with and take exception to the two statements remaining above.

I often "set exposure manually" just because I want to. It allows me to practice using Manual, so when I need it, I can do it quickly.

I have used 2 Canon film bodies, 4 Canon digital bodies and several other SLRs. EC is available on ALL of them, in all 'creative' modes. I have never used an SLR that did NOT have EC available in all of the B, Av, Tv and MANUAL modes. My bone of contention is EC in Manual mode. You state the EC is not available, then you go on to state EXACTLY how to do it. That makes no sense. Just because the camera can't do it automatically, does NOT mean it is not available. I do EC in Manual mode all the time. And I do it just like you stated, by putting the needle where I want it. It is Manual and it is EC. What it is NOT is automatic. I think we agree and are just debating semantics, here.

PixelMagic wrote in post #14896727
I suggest you read page 277 of your 60D User Manual. It clearly states that Exposure Compensation is only available in Program, Shutter Priority, and Aperture Priority modes.

Really? Try this. Set your camera to manual mode. Body doesn't matter, they will all do this. Now fix ISO wherever you want. Fix either shutter speed or aperture, your choice. What the heck, do this once with each. Now adjust the not-yet-fixed parameter (either shutter or aperture) so that your exposure meter reads -1, or +1, or anything except 0. Did it work? You know it did. That IS exposure compensation. You just have to do it yourself. You just used exposure compensation in manual mode. Just because it is NOT automatic does not mean it is not EC.

Of course manual EC is available in manual mode. But the camera setting called EC is ignored in manual mode.

If you set 1/125, f8, and ISO 400 manually, you can't now tell the camera to set an EC of +1 stop where the camera chooses whether to change the shutter, the aperture or the ISO or some combination of those to equal +1 stop. You have to manually change whichever of those you want to change yourself. Yes, you have a meter readout to help, but that's all it is. It is not the same as the camera doing the EC for you.

That's only Exposure Compensation if your entire world consists of 18% grey.

Your argument should be with Canon since they clearly state, in your own 60D Manual no less, that EC is only available in Tv, AV and P modes.

TSchrief wrote in post #14896817
Really? Try this. Set your camera to manual mode. Body doesn't matter, they will all do this. Now fix ISO wherever you want. Fix either shutter speed or aperture, your choice. What the heck, do this once with each. Now adjust the not-yet-fixed parameter (either shutter or aperture) so that your exposure meter reads -1, or +1, or anything except 0. Did it work? You know it did. That IS exposure compensation. You just have to do it yourself. You just used exposure compensation in manual mode. Just because it is NOT automatic does not mean it is not EC.

Thank you for agreeing with me. No, it is not the same thing as automatic. But the results are the same. We are not talking about it being automatic; we are talking about it being available. If you use Av mode with +1 EC and the camera selects 1/200, f/8 and ISO 400, how is that any different from you manually selecting 1/200, f/8 and ISO 400? The only difference is that the needle will not be centered. Who cares about the needle? What you are after is a properly exposed photograph. Both methods of EC yield the same result. I contend that doing it in manual is easier. If you know enough to dial in +1 EC, you know enough to set the needle one stop from zero, and you don't have to press any extra buttons to do it.

To all of you who are contending that EC is not available in Manual mode. Are you insisting that I can't change gears in my car because I don't have an automatic transmission? Seems to me that depressing the clutch and MANUALLY moving the shift lever works just fine. You can do the same with EC in manual mode.