Not getting much help

I'm gonna try to keep this short as possible and to the point.

Ive been pointing and shooting for some time, either with a point and shoot camera or my iphone ( iff that makes any sense in the photography world ). Im finally saving enough cash to grab a decent DSLR Canon, the problem ( im sure with a lot of people ) is i have no idea whats considered "good" or 'decent" for the price, i have researched endlessly on canons and nikons and their limitations, but i just don't have the right knowledge and comprehension of what these things mean.

the first attachement with my name on the bottom is the type of image i want with a camera ( of course with a much clearer and deeper image )

and the second one is more of nightlife photography, i will be wanting to start promoting friends DJ gigs and what not and want this type of outcome, i understand that i need an external flash unit, bounce card, but i also understand that its not that simple either, a bit overwhelming for a beginner like myself.

So any advice on some models? Right now i have about $730 saved, should i wait or do i have options for the outcomes that i want?

Thanks for taking the time to read!

J_Robaatik wrote in post #14899653
i have no idea whats considered "good" or 'decent" for the price, i have researched endlessly on canons and nikons and their limitations, but i just don't have the right knowledge and comprehension of what these things mean.

That comes with time. Just keep learning. If you read something you don't understand, copy and paste it into google and you'll probably find many helpful links.

What measures have you actually taken to learn?

Here's a quick, easy to understand exposure primer

You'll usually get the best deals online.

The market watch section is good for finding deals
The Canon refurbished store has some great deals. And the cameras are basically like new.

^^^ If you're interested in a refurbished camera, before you buy, take a look at the Canon loyalty Program thread

You'll learn about all this soon I hope. But what you mean by "clearer" is, you want something with more in focus aka more "depth of field" (dof). More dof = more in focus, less blur. Less dof (shallow dof) = less in focus, more blur. Check out that first link I gave you.

As far as cameras are concerned, pretty much everything will do what you're asking.

I will list some entry level cameras (inexpensive). BTW, entry level doesn't mean it won't take great photos, on the contrary. All the cameras I list are more than capable of high image quality. These cameras can produce images for fine art prints, magazine covers, etc. The entry level means it might lack some features of the higher priced models, but not everyone needs those features anyways. Such as weather sealing, faster frames per second (how many photos you can snap in a second), better focusing for fast moving objects, smaller size, etc.

Canon 1100D (bottom of the line entry level)
Canon 550D
Canon 600D
Canon 650D (new model)
Canon 60D
Nikon D3200 (new model)
Nikon D5100
Nikon D7000 I mention this because it's an awesome camera for the price. I'm pretty sure it's out of your budget, especially since you might need to buy extra memory cards, batteries, lens(s), etc with whichever camera you choose. But I hate to leave it off the list.

A good flash for you would be the 430EXll

You'll probably want a diffuser for the flash too.

Okay, that's a lot for now. I'm sure many more will chime in. Here's another link to keep you busy.

EDIT:
I forgot to mention lenses. I'd stay away from the kit lenses. IMO a Canon 50mm f/1.8 is a great first lens to get. It's cheap, great image quality, and a great lens to use in low light clubs. Its a prime lens (fixed focal length). Which means it's only 50mm. There's no zoom. Using only a prime lens will make you think more (IMO) and will help you figure out exactly what you want out of a lens(s). You'll know exactly what you want out of your next lens purchases.

You will get much better help spending your money in the Camera sub-forum but for what it's worth;

Both images could be taken on any Canon body. The key to the 2nd image is a dragged shutter and bounced flash which would require a speedlight.

You don't say where you are located so I have no idea what "version" of the dollar you're talking about...but in Australia you could get set up with a decent new Rebel kit or a 2nd hand 60D kit (body, lens, flash).

I'm an advocate of starting small and working out where you want to go before investing too much money, so I'd say jump in to either option.

Welcome to POTN!

P.S - If the 2nd image isn't yours you should link to in instead of posting it here.

SOK wrote in post #14899901
I'm an advocate of starting small and working out where you want to go before investing too much money

I agree. More gear can confuse the beginner. Get a camera, lens, flash w/ diffuser (because you want to use the camera in a club) and practice practice practice. Instead of spending money on more gear, spend it on education (books, dvds, workshops, tutorials, etc) and learn as much as you can as fast as you can and work on the craft. Plus, sometimes when beginners buy a lot of gear at the start they realize they made some pretty bad purchasing decisions down the road. Wait until you know what you need, or wait until you can determine for yourself what you want and why you want it.

Camera bodies matter a lot less than skills for those shots. I would think an entry level DSLR like a Rebel (ie. like an t3i or t4i / 600D or 650D) would be quite sufficient for your needs. These cameras are more than enough for you to learn and grow. They are now far more advanced and well-rounded than when I first started with my Rebel Xti.

Photo 1 screams Instagram. I assume you like the serpia look of that photo but personally I find it a little over-processed and pretentious. But if you want that look any postprocessing software can do that. If you are refering to the blurred background effect, then you will need a larger aperture prime lens. A 50 f1.8 lens ($100) would do just fine on an entry level DSLR and serves as an excellent beginner's gear.

Now Photo 2 demands more skills. First off, for taking picture in a dark environment, you need a good external flash. Your camera's AF might struggle a little so it helps to get a flash with an infrared AF assist light (like the 430EX II). Just setting the flash to auto is not difficult, but to take a photo with balanced exposure from the flash and ambient light (like your example above) can take a bit of skills but you seem to know that already. You should first try to understand basic relationship of exposure, shutter speed, aperture and ISO first, otherwise it would be overwhelming.

Once you are ready, you can find a great summary of the basics by Curtis:

https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=171657

J_Robaatik wrote in post #14899653
I'm gonna try to keep this short as possible and to the point.

Ive been pointing and shooting for some time, either with a point and shoot camera or my iphone ( iff that makes any sense in the photography world ). Im finally saving enough cash to grab a decent DSLR Canon, the problem ( im sure with a lot of people ) is i have no idea whats considered "good" or 'decent" for the price, i have researched endlessly on canons and nikons and their limitations, but i just don't have the right knowledge and comprehension of what these things mean.

the first attachement with my name on the bottom is the type of image i want with a camera ( of course with a much clearer and deeper image )

and the second one is more of nightlife photography, i will be wanting to start promoting friends DJ gigs and what not and want this type of outcome, i understand that i need an external flash unit, bounce card, but i also understand that its not that simple either, a bit overwhelming for a beginner like myself.

So any advice on some models? Right now i have about $730 saved, should i wait or do i have options for the outcomes that i want?

Thanks for taking the time to read!

Fortunately, for those who do not have unlimited money to spend, there's not a huge difference between the image creation potential of most Canon DSLR's, For example, Canon sells several camera bodies referred to as their "18 megapixel" line because they have identical maximum image dimensions of 5184 x 3456 pixels. These cameras differ in size and price and features, but they have the potential to create identical images. Unless you're a gadget lover, you won't find any huge differences between the T2i and T3i and T4i and the 60D and 7D, especially if you're a newcomer. The added complexity of the 7D, which has an exceptionally sophisticated and adjustable autofocus system, has been shown to confound novices and leave them more unhappy than if they had chosen something less expensive.

The real differences come from the way the cameras are used. A photographer's skills and experience are more imporant to a "good" image than the last detail or feature in a camera body. So, if you want good outcomes, you're going to need to learn how to create those outcomes. Unfortunately, that will take time, and more time than just a few months, or even years. So, the best path for a newcomer is to not buy the most expensive item on the market and go for something simpler that will be an effective learning tool, and then use that camera as often as possible to learn its potential and expand your potential to create images.

For a novice, one of the simpler cameras such as a T3i, or a T2i, would be a good starting point, These cameras have the potential to create an image that is as good as your ability and experience will allow, and their prices will leave much of your money in your pocket. Just use the camera as often as possible and learn through experience what it can do and what you can do. Some people say you haven't learned how to use a camera until you've worn it out.

Another option to keep in mind if you're interested in maximizing your budget is to buy used. Buying a generation or two behind the latest can save you considerable money while leaving you with a very capable camera body.

I'm pretty much speechless, i want to thank everyone that responded, all of your responses were very clear and then some. I'm thinking i might go with the 600D, its around my price range plus it will be my first DLSR, i don't think its a good idea to buy a DLSR over $1000-$1200 as my first although im very careful.

Sorry, the second photo depicted was from here: http://masochismtango.​com …/how-to-take-club-photos/ I also have been looking at glossaries and definitions of what i've been seeing on the net.

I'll have a better perspective once this camera is in my hands hah. Thanks again guys, i'll keep you posted!

Camera bodies depreciate very quickly; good lenses hold their value reasonably well. When starting out, buy a gently used body that's a generation or two older than the new-hotness. Let someone else take the depreciation hit. Spend the difference on a better lens, a Speedlight, and education (books, subscription to kelbytraining.com or lynda.com, classes).

A used T2i , T3i, 50d or 60d; a 50mm f/1.8, and a 430EXII.

nathancarter wrote in post #14900957
Camera bodies depreciate very quickly; good lenses hold their value reasonably well. When starting out, buy a gently used body that's a generation or two older than the new-hotness. Let someone else take the depreciation hit. Spend the difference on a better lens, a Speedlight, and education (books, subscription to kelbytraining.com or lynda.com, classes).

A used T2i , T3i, 50d or 60d; a 50mm f/1.8, and a 430EXII.

Thanks nathan, i'll definitely take this into consideration