Commercial shoots and contracts/payments

So I've only been doing non-commercial work. A while back, someone proposed a commercial shoot, and I expressed interest. Since then, we've planned on a date to do the shoot. They'll be hiring models and taking care of hair and makeup. I'll be doing the shooting, and they've provided examples of some "looks" that they like. This was all well and good when the shoot was months away, but now it's two weeks away, and while I've tried to discuss the financial terms for this half-day shoot, nothing concrete has been worked out yet. So I haven't been able to write up a contract without the specific details that have yet to be resolved. They keep saying I'll hear from them shortly to finalize the details, but it hasn't happened yet. I obviously won't just show up for this shoot on that day without knowing these details. My plan was to draw up a contract, have them sign in, and have them pay me on that day (and provide an invoice on the day of the shoot). If this all sounds naive, enlighten me! It's my first time doing this type of shoot. I've read a bunch of stuff, but it seems like everyone handles this a little differently.

First I want some advice on how to handle the current situation of being two weeks away without a contract, or is this pretty normal? Should I insist on having a signed contract by a certain date, prior to the shoot? Should I request a deposit to hold the date, with just two weeks left anyway? Anyway, I'm interested in hearing how others would handle this. It's a good opportunity that I don't want to walk away from, but I will walk away if I think they're just jerking me around to try to get something for nothing. Thanks.

Check out Best Business Practices for Photographers.

I would email them your version of the contract and ask them to sign it and Fax it back. That would be a starting point. If they want to make changes, then the negotiations are open.

Like you said, do not do this without a contract. Good luck.

Hang on. Aren't you supposed to post this thread in 5 weeks time, with the thread title "client won't pay"? Lord be praised someone with the good sense to get stuff sorted out before actually doing the work

A client who is vague and evasive before they owe you money is very likely to be even more so when it comes time to pay. They may also try to move the goal-posts re what was agreed or what is to be delivered/by when. You are 100% right to make sure this gets resolved before the shoot.

Put simply do not press the shutter unless you have a contract and at least a non-refundable retainer in your bank account. - Many of the experienced pros on this board wont press the shutter unless they have been paid in full (weddings mainly I think).

As Ray suggests, don't wait for the client. Email them your terms and conditions, including how much you expect to get paid and what you will deliver (and when). State that if they want to secure your services for that date they will need to sign and return the contract, with the retainer, no later than 5 working days before the date. - frankly that is too short but at least it makes it clear that no contract = no play.

This isn't exactly advice, but more the other side of the coin...in 25+ years of working commercially, I can count on one hand the number of projects I've done that involved a contract.

Simplified version:
I get a call.
I shoot the job
I invoice the job
Client pays the bill.

And out of thousands of commercial projects, I've only ever had one client that has (to date) not paid the invoice in full, though they do communicate with me and are making an effort to resolve this.

I'm assuming by your use of the word 'commercial' that the client is a legitimate business. If that's in fact the case, it wouldn't bother me too much not to have a contract going into the job.

I also get the call.
Shoot the Job and then invoice.
Many clients I work for would not pay a deposit because the work is usually a few weeks out and it takes a lot of time for an invoice to go through the channels and get to accounts payable. If its a new client I will insist on a PO# and a cost center #.
I have never been stiffed. Large corporations have way to much to loose not to pay. My invoice has 30 day terms but even my fastest paying clients its generally 45 days but 60-90 is the norm.

I appreciate all the advice here. It's funny that I got another email yesterday that said we'd finalize all the details today, and I haven't heard anything today (yet). So we'll see. I think I'll feel better spelling everything out in a contract and getting confirmation on that contract from them before starting the job (deposit or not). However, a couple of you have said something I've heard before too...that I could potentially go in there without a contract, do the shoot, give them an invoice, and assume they'll pay it. We haven't agreed to a dollar amount yet though. Well, I've told them what I'm planning to charge - they haven't said anything...except that they seem to be moving full speed ahead. It's a legitimate business. It's a chain of upscale hair salons, and I'm dealing with the owner of the salons. I don't think they'd stiff me, but I don't want to get into a debate with them after the shoot about the amount, if they say they never agreed to the amount. So that's all I really want spelled out in the contract...the terms of the shoot, what I'm delivering, and what they're paying me.

get something in writing (even if it's just an email) confirming that they agree with the price you have quoted them.

I agree with not pressing the shutter until you get some sort of written confirmation on the price they are willing to pay, but also agree that there likely won't be a full blown contract in place. My best paying clients have also never provided a contract ahead of a shoot.

I have looked all over the place and on numerous occasions (PPA, ASMP, google, etc.) to find a template for a basic commercial contract for a job like this one. I just want to spell out the date and time of the shoot, duration, what I'm expected to deliver and when, copyright usage license info, what happens if the shoot has to be rescheduled, and fees (and payment schedule). Since this is so common, there must be a template out there somewhere that I can use and "fill in the blanks" to cover this job, but I can't seem to find one. Anyone here have a pointer to such a contract? Thanks.

Interesting thread. I myself am currently in search of such information.

I have a bit more time now to figure this out because the shoot was postponed (by the client) for about a month. I might actually start collecting all the bits and pieces of information and write my own contract template if I can't find one elsewhere. I know - I should hire a lawyer or make sure any such contract is reviewed by a lawyer. I'm just talking about a first pass that covers all the basics. I'm surprised I can't find such a thing!