Will I be overwhelmed by the 7D as a newbie?

Billginthekeys wrote in post #14913977
Hey it is a hobby, no one needs a hobby to survive (well... maybe to stay sane). But still, I maintain that it sounds like the OP doesn't just happen to have $2,000 laying around to spend on hobbies every day since he said "This is a comfortable budget that I've been saving for a while." Thus if he has spent some time saving that money, I think he should think more about where it will be best spent for the enjoyment of his hobby.

And hey speaking of wants, I want to own a $3000 Fender guitar. I can barely strum more than three chords of the crappy guitar I have owned for years and never have taken the time to really learn to play. Could I go buy the guitar I want, put it on a stand in my house and marvel at it? Sure. Will it make me a better guitarist than I am today? No. Could I use it and go get lessons and use it during those lessons? Sure. Would it make me a better guitarist than the $200 beginners guitar I have collecting dust? No (effectively anyway). Except even that isn't a fair comparison because at least a quality Fender guitar wouldn't depreciate a ton while I was learning and be massively surpassed by newer technology by the time I knew how to play it.

Very true. I suppose if money were no object, I would already have a 1DX. It is, and I have to live within the confines of my finances. I agree that the OP gains nothing from the 7D, immediately. And if it strains his budget, that he should not buy it. But damn! Sometimes it just feels really good to blow a wad of money!

Oh, I paid $59 for an acoustic guitar about 5 years ago. It still serves every guitar-wise need I currently have. Not moving to upgrade that anytime soon.

TSchrief wrote in post #14914037
Sometimes it just feels really good to blow a wad of money!

Indeed it does !

I've spent more money on worse things that left me less satisfied than a shiny new camera, so OP go for whatever looks the coolest if you've got green to burn. I don't think it'll be a difficult transition from the XTi (my only dslr from 2006-2011 was an XT), they both do the same things more or less just with buttons in different places (RTFM).

And hey, no matter what you get, you can always still put it on P for Professional.

7d & 17-55 is a hugely competent combo, you can set it up so it works simply (Av mode, single point af) then progress as much as you want as fast as you want.

Billginthekeys wrote in post #14913536
Please, I am dead serious, I mean really dead serious, someone explain to me why many you are telling/encouraging a guy who ALREADY OWNS a perfectly good usable DSLR that will accomplish all the basics of photography (Shutter speed, ISO, aperture, focus modes, metering, flash, ect), that he admitantly knows little more about than how to turn on, to go drop over $1,000 hard earned dollars into a newer perfectly good usable DSLR that he STILL won't know anything more about than how to turn on?

It will take at least a year or two of (fun) practice and learning for him to actually even realize the full potential of his current rebel body, and going out and buying a 7D isn't going to make that happen any faster. It just means that while he is going through that intial period of learning what he is going with the camera OUT of green box mode, his 7D will be plummeting in value, new models will be coming out, whereas his current XTi is paid for and certainly past the point of significant continuing depreciation at this point.

Whereas if he wants to go spend $2,000 or so on his hobby, he could go buy a few clean used quality lenses that will not decrease in value much if at all, will expand the range of what he will be able to do photographically, and if he buys the right ones will still be fabulous lenses in a couple years when he knows how to use a camera and is ready to buy the one that will fit his needs. And in a few years the body technology will continue to get much better, and he can spend the same money he would spend today on it (plus interest even) and get a much better camera body, with a couple years of experience behind him to actually know what to do with it.

I mean I am all for buying the best and getting the right product the first time, but if you actually stand to lose more money by buying something you won't get the benefit from today, than by sticking with what you have for now, and buying the best when you actually CAN get benefit for it, why spend the money today?

Please do explain if you have different views on the matter.

*end rant*

spurring on the economy... that's why
Actually I was attempting to answer his actual question not read into his motives or go off track with other advise

First off, I'd narrow down your field of view to say two cameras. And then decide between them. For example- out of the 7D/60D/T4i mentioned- I would go with the 7D/T4i - because, in a lot of ways- the t4i can do almost everything and has most of the features - minus larger size and ergonomics /controls of the 60D- kind of a mini-60D+. It makes up for some of the controls of the 60D- with its useful touchscreen- which works well.

I see it often enough here on POTN. Guy buys a 7D or other more pro camera- and then finds out that it's too much.. Reality is that you could easily start on a 7D and it'd be fine.. Disappointments: Off the back- the sophisticated AF system is a bit much for most- but if you bite it off a bit at a time- it's doable. You've been exposed to DSLRs- so you really should not have that hard of a time.

Video: As long as you are aware that video on a 7D is basically a manual autofocus /manual focus operation- great. The 60D is similar in this respect- except for the swivel screen on it makes composition easier. It's not a camcorder- with true automatic autofocus.. If you are looking for that- you should consider the T4i instead- with the 18-135 IS STM lens. Still, overall, you might be better off with a dedicated camcorder.

As far as shooting sports and other things that a 7D is designed for- well- most are just as well served by even lesser cameras. Even older Canon DSLR's should be able to fill these roles- although newer models will serve them possibly better or easier. For most- any current Rebel is sufficient for the task. For what most consider sports- taking pics of young Billy swinging a bat at Little League- you really don't need a 7D to handle that- it's probably overkill. LIke the 60D, the T4i sports a 9 point all cross type AF system- so very similar.. Having all cross type af points helps shooting in AI servo - for sports..

Growth: The 7D will provide you a lot of room for growth- that I won't argue. But in the end- it's just a camera- just like the Rebels. The 6D/70D will give you a brighter viewfinder and a bigger body and more controls- T4i is going to be more likable by those wanting a smaller body, like women, or those just plain tired of holding up a hefty DSLR. A T4i makes up for having fewer controls- with that fantastic touch screen.. Either one will last you a while- neither will hold you back- deep down inside- they are both cameras with similar underlying architectures.

Personally, I'd look at what features you really want, and the size of the package that you want. I'd suggest trying both and seeing what feels better in your hands- and what you will be comfortable with in the long haul. A T4i/60D has that swivel screen that is amazingly useful for certain types of photography.. The 7D- is the feel that it gives in the hand- it feels substantial.. That said, it feels better with more substantial lenses on it.. This is where bigger bodies work wonders- when you start putting better, which means usually heavier, glass attached to them. IF I had to narrow down the field to two cameras for you- I'd pick what I have for my crops- the T4i and the 7D. For video, and a lightweight camera - I thought the T4i with the new kit lens would excel - and it's really a wonderful combo. When it comes to mounting heavier lenses- for other things- 7D. On one hand- you have the t4i- top of the Rebel dogpile. And then you have the 7D- King of the crops. At least- Canon crops..

Flashes- go with a 430 EX II or a 580 EX II.. Until you put one on your camera ( or use it off camera ) you won't understand how much it truly adds.. The only way to beat having one 430 EX II/ 580 EX II- is to go with two of them! It's a different ballgame after that.

wayne.robbins wrote in post #14915829
Flashes- go with a 430 EX II or a 580 EX II...

I agree. Stay away from the limited 270 EX. You'll just want the 430 EX II after a while anyway.

Since I've tried several of the options you are considering, and own some of them, 7D included, I can tell that the 7D is indeed more capable than anything else you consider, but unless you are going to shoot demanding action shots you'll never notice. For everyday views or whatever, a 60D will do the same job.

As a complete noob, I got a 7D and after reading a few books and spend a lot of time playign with my camera. I am becoming more comfortable with it every day. I do not/did not feel over whelmed.

I do agree with the people who say do not buy a 7D if you have not progressed past full auto on your rebel. Spend some money on quality glass (17-55mm, 85mm 1.8) and learn how to use and expose your rebel properly to gain the required results (Av, Tv, M).

You will gain very very little buying a 7D now....

I have a lot of time to pay and so far I have not shot any people with my flash just things that are very patient, bikes, insects, flowers etc. I have a Yongnuo manual flash from eBay. it is ace and was only £30! It does not E-TTL tho.

The 7d can be used with basic or complex settings. It is no more difficult than any other dslr with options to set it up with more specialised settings. I disagree with all who make it out to be some kind of mad difficult machine. Even the af can be set up in a basic enough mode. It does have features that you will find more useful as your knowledge improves. It only takes photographs after all

I came from the 550D, and became a manual mode raw shooter as I found I could get better results this way. Moved to the 7D and found it to have almost zero learning curve, if anything I found it easier to use for how I use a camera. There actually a dial for the aperture!! And a handy settings LCD. And a big viewfinder and autofocus points that make picking an individual point to focus on much easier.

The tricky thing with the 7D is mainly to understand all the details about the AF system setup for Servo AF applications. It's equivalent in complexity to the 1D Mark IV, a camera which made Canon completely redesign the AF interface in the 1DX model.

apersson850 wrote in post #14916734
The tricky thing with the 7D is mainly to understand all the details about the AF system setup for Servo AF applications.

Are you referring to the autofocus point selection modes?

TMag.
Since you said you are willing to learn, go for the best you can afford.
It sounds like the 7D is your man. Go for it. You can use it in full auto like many have said. But you can grow into it also. Since you have the XTi as do I, and still have today as it was my first DSLR, learning this camera is a step up. For me learning the 7D was a natural progression. The Auto Focus System is top notch, the build quality is robust.
Treat your self to the 7D with the 17-55 f/2.8 and learn with a great combination Canon has to offer.
If you should hit a stumbling block with the 7D, feel free to ask. That is why we are all here.

Mornnb wrote in post #14916899
Are you referring to the autofocus point selection modes?

Understanding which point selection mode to combine with the settings in C.Fn III and C.Fn IV in order to get the best result for photographing moving targets. That's what I refer to.

If you don't do that you don't need to bother, but then quite a lot of the point in getting a 7D is lost too.

One big advantage of the 7D combined with a decent lens is the knowledge that if the resulting photo isn't great it's your fault!

One other thing the 7d's got is micro focus adjustment. I've got a 40D and swear that the reason many of my shots are out of focus is because of the camera/lens combo. If I had the 7D I could adjust for that (if indeed it is a problem) and discover whether my issue is equipment related or brain related.

My guess is that the 60d, or maybe even the 650d, might give me all the features I need (maybe not all those I want) but the lack of micro focus adjustment is a deal breaker for me...whether or not it would make any Real difference!

7D prices are certainly attractive at the moment but so is the potential of a 70D release (hopefully with micro adjustment) or even a 7DII, if only to drive the 7D prices down a bit further!

Good luck with what ever you decide.