Do you consider risk and safety issues before you start shooting?

Quote from Preeb, "The best weapon for bear country if you must carry a gun is a .44 magnum. Risk takers actully hunt grizzly with .44's. It still isn't a failsafe though, as you have to keep a cool enough head to make the first shot count, since if you miss with the first, you probably wont get another, and even if you do it probably won't hit the bear.[/QUOTE]

I will respectfully disagree with this statement for many reasons. The .44 is far from the "best weapon for bear country." There are many better choices and the bullet one carries makes a big difference, not with-standing the platform and the ability to deploy. I suspect you are quoting from something you have read. My info comes from hunting black bears, friends who hunt brown and knowing my share of bear guides.

Cheers, Steve

There are a couple of cliffs that I shoot from around here and I take 180+ degree panos from. There is not enough ledge to set up a tripod on and so I handhold but I have to twist my waist all the way left to right then right to left. If I lost my balance or got dizzy or whatever it would be hundreds of feet to my death. I should probably bring a rope next time just to tie around my waist and to a tree somewhere.....

Pictured: Safety! Or maybe not.

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pssc wrote in post #14922974
Quote from Preeb, "The best weapon for bear country if you must carry a gun is a .44 magnum. Risk takers actully hunt grizzly with .44's. It still isn't a failsafe though, as you have to keep a cool enough head to make the first shot count, since if you miss with the first, you probably wont get another, and even if you do it probably won't hit the bear.

I will respectfully disagree with this statement for many reasons. The .44 is far from the "best weapon for bear country." There are many better choices and the bullet one carries makes a big difference, not with-standing the platform and the ability to deploy. I suspect you are quoting from something you have read. My info comes from hunting black bears, friends who hunt brown and knowing my share of bear guides.

Cheers, Steve

I've used a lot of different handguns, and there isn't much that carries a bigger punch than a .44 mag. I know that there is a .50 mag, but it kicks worse than a .44. I've also known handgun hunters who hunted black bear with a .357 mag. Even a small grizzly is half again as large as a black bear. You take your choice - mine is still going to be a .44 mag hollow point.

Laramie wrote in post #14920338
It ain't fun if there's NO risk

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That snake does not look happy - was there another shot taken after this one?

^^ Pretty much the same. Did lots of posturing to get into a defensive position, but no strikes.

Quote from Preeb:
I've used a lot of different handguns, and there isn't much that carries a bigger punch than a .44 mag. I know that there is a .50 mag, but it kicks worse than a .44. I've also known handgun hunters who hunted black bear with a .375 mag. Even a small grizzly is half again as large as a black bear. You take your choice - mine is still going to be a .44 mag hollow point.[/QUOTE]

I am sorry to take this off track, but wouldn't want a photog to get hurt by reading your post and taking it as fact--it could get someone hurt. I can tell by your last quote that you are not educated in this area. First, I am unaware of a .50 mag. Also, you claim it kicks worse than a .44. How do you know? Have you shot it? Also what loads are in your .44. I have reloaded for the last 30 years. I can load very weak to extremely heavy .44 loads. There are numerous handguns that carry a bigger punch (your phrase). 454 casull, hot 45LC, 460 s&W, 500 s&w, 480 ruger, 475 and 500 linebaugh. There are merrils, contenders etc. I do not know what handgun a 375 is, but I have used in hunting black bear 10mm, 357mag and 44mag. My point originally is that the .44 is not the "best gun" as rifles, 375H&H or 338wm etc or 45-70 loaded with proper bullets or 12g shotgun with proper slugs are all better choices in brown bear country. Lastly, your statement that you will take a .44--do you even have one? with hollowpoints shows your complete ignorance in this area. For brown/grizzly/dangerou​s game you need and want penetration and bone busting ability. Hence why hollowpoints are not used. Hardcast bullets SWC are used as are other solids or fmj. Hollowpoints are designed to expand and limit penetration. There is a world of difference in the bullets one uses for hunting/stopping dangerous game vs people. For my .44 I use heavy 300 to 325 hardcast SWC's. Do some research if you do not believe me.

Cheers, Steve

...good topic Luckless.

I spent 13 years in the hospitality industry where I learnt a few of important lessons: firstly nearly every calamity that I ever experienced was inherently predictable, as a result of this I always had plan A, B, C, D, E and F planned out in my head in the event that a calamity looked likely to pop up. Ten minutes of planning can save hours of work down the line, and nothing beats a quick briefing at the start of a shift to get everyone on the same page.

So before any on location shoot I spend a bit of time planning the shoot. (which includes identifying any hazards) Before the shoot starts I give a quick briefing to all involved that includes what to do is someone gets injured, who the first aid people are, warnings about any identified hazards and what to do if the worst were to happen. People are given roles to do in worst case scenarios. If its getting dark and there are a lot of people on location I even do a roll call at the start and the end of the shoot to make sure that we don't leave someone behind with a broken leg in a tunnel.

The planning typically only takes less than an hour, the briefing only a few minutes. And I don't really shoot anything that's really dangerous. (and if I did, I would take suitable precautions.) Our clients don't know any better: as photographers we are in charge of the shoot and its our responsibility to ensure risk is minimized as much as possible. I don't think that relying on "common sense" is enough, to be honest. Risk should be planned for.

Interesting as the majority of responses are about photographer's safety rather than the subject's safety.

But Banquetbear--you go, bear!

pssc wrote in post #14923890
Quote from Preeb:
I've used a lot of different handguns, and there isn't much that carries a bigger punch than a .44 mag. I know that there is a .50 mag, but it kicks worse than a .44. I've also known handgun hunters who hunted black bear with a .375 mag. Even a small grizzly is half again as large as a black bear. You take your choice - mine is still going to be a .44 mag hollow point.

I am sorry to take this off track, but wouldn't want a photog to get hurt by reading your post and taking it as fact--it could get someone hurt. I can tell by your last quote that you are not educated in this area. First, I am unaware of a .50 mag. Also, you claim it kicks worse than a .44. How do you know? Have you shot it? Also what loads are in your .44. I have reloaded for the last 30 years. I can load very weak to extremely heavy .44 loads. There are numerous handguns that carry a bigger punch (your phrase). 454 casull, hot 45LC, 460 s&W, 500 s&w, 480 ruger, 475 and 500 linebaugh. There are merrils, contenders etc. I do not know what handgun a 375 is, but I have used in hunting black bear 10mm, 357mag and 44mag. My point originally is that the .44 is not the "best gun" as rifles, 375H&H or 338wm etc or 45-70 loaded with proper bullets or 12g shotgun with proper slugs are all better choices in brown bear country. Lastly, your statement that you will take a .44--do you even have one? with hollowpoints shows your complete ignorance in this area. For brown/grizzly/dangerou​s game you need and want penetration and bone busting ability. Hence why hollowpoints are not used. Hardcast bullets SWC are used as are other solids or fmj. Hollowpoints are designed to expand and limit penetration. There is a world of difference in the bullets one uses for hunting/stopping dangerous game vs people. For my .44 I use heavy 300 to 325 hardcast SWC's. Do some research if you do not believe me.

Cheers, Steve

S&W .50 Mag

No I don't reload. For what we are talking about it's unnecessary. Factory loads would be quite sufficient. Hitting what you are aiming at is more important. And I've shot a Thompson Contender chambered for .223.... deadly accurate but not anything I want for bear either.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not even advocating carrying any gun. As a rule, common sense is more dependable. I've met black bears in the woods several times over the years and they have always run the other way, including a sow with 2 cubs while I was canoeing in Canada's Quetico back in 1963. I've backpacked in grizzly country in the Madison Range in SW Montana, just outside of Yellowstone, and in the Bridger Wilderness in Wyoming's Wind River Mountains. I was actually a lot more nervous coming across fresh mountain lion tracks one winter while hiking alone in the Colorado front range. I reversed my course and headed back to the truck. Last thing I want to meet under those circumstances is a winter hungry lion.

I've spent years around my primary subject and I usually shoot from very close with a UWA. I like to think I have a good feel for the horse but they are flight animals that can explode in an instant. I have been shooting with strobes quite a bit recently and the shooting doesn't even start until the time has been put in getting the animal comfortable with the sights and sounds of the gear.

Bob

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/hotbobs/7891002​970/

RDKirk wrote in post #14923965
But Banquetbear--you go, bear!

Holy crap!

...I just realized that there are people hunting bears in this thread!

:: runs from thread ::

No. I go out and shoot. My gear is insured.

banquetbear wrote in post #14923938
..I don't think that relying on "common sense" is enough, to be honest. Risk should be planned for.

While I totally agree with this statement, not all risk can be planned for in advance. Knowing your "expected" risks when carrying out a shoot, should always be planned for. Unfortunatly, there are unseen dangers in every situation which cannot be planned for. This is where experience is invaluable. Knowledge about your location / subject (whether from your own experiences or that of others) is essential to minimize the risks. Do some research beforehand. Having proper safety equipment with you is also important. Using basic common sense is a must everytime.

Laramie wrote in post #14920338
It ain't fun if there's NO risk

I hope you used the 70-200 and not the 17-40! The last buzzworm I came across was when I was out geocaching. I was in an area somewhat known to contain rattlers, so I was on alert. As I approached the log that covered the cache, I looked around very carefully, and did see a small snake just on the other side. If I had stepped over the log, I would no doubt have been bitten. But being raised in many snake infested areas, I am always alert for this situation. I managed to get the cache using a hiking pole, but couldn't get a good picture of the snake, as he was way down in the grass.