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Thread started 06 Sep 2012 (Thursday) 00:56
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Confused about vintage lenses...

 
Earwax69
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Sep 06, 2012 00:56 |  #1

Hi, can anyone help me find information about the different mount types and what would be good value lenses that would fit on my t3i?

So far I gather that m-mount is for Leica, fd-mount is old canon, K-mount is Pentax...
There's also takumar, yashica, nikkor...

All those mounts need a different adaptor.

What are your takes on the subject?
Is it worth the hassle really?

This is the kind of vintage bokeh I am after;
http://farm5.static.fl​ickr.com …02121195_30ec7a​c6ff_b.jpg (external link)
http://farm5.static.fl​ickr.com …02752844_dafe1a​4ef4_b.jpg (external link)
Yashica ML 50mm f/1.4


Canon 6D | S35mm f1.4 | 135mm f2 The rest: T3i, 20D, 15mm f2.8, 15-85mm, 24mm f2.8, 50mm f1.8, 85mm f1.8, 90mm f2.8 macro, 55-250mm.
So long and thanks for all the fish

  
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KirkS518
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Sep 06, 2012 02:10 |  #2

An old lens doesn't a 'Beautiful creamy bokeh' setting. An old lens is (for the most part) just an old lens.

Here's what will successfully work on your camera with the correct adapters:
http://www.bobatkins.c​om …faq/manual_focu​s_EOS.html (external link)

Is it worth the hassle? In some cases yes, but more than likely no.

Go get a nice 50mm 1.2L, or some other quality modern lens that gives the results you're looking for. It'll be less expensive in the long run.


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Digital - 50D, 20D IR Conv, 9 Lenses from 8mm to 300mm
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Earwax69
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Sep 06, 2012 02:23 |  #3

And a full frame cam of course... ?!

Thanks for the excellent link!


Canon 6D | S35mm f1.4 | 135mm f2 The rest: T3i, 20D, 15mm f2.8, 15-85mm, 24mm f2.8, 50mm f1.8, 85mm f1.8, 90mm f2.8 macro, 55-250mm.
So long and thanks for all the fish

  
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Kolor-Pikker
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Sep 06, 2012 04:59 |  #4

M42 is a very common mount for old lenses, quite a bit of them will work on full-frame, and all of them should work on crop due to the shorter mirror. I have a Russian 35mm f/2 lens that actually has bokeh very similar to what you posted, but only at certain distances, otherwise it's super creamy.

As for price... a lot of vintage glass is fairly cheap, an "expensive" lens is probably $300, you can get a great 135mm f/2.8 for $200 if you look around. It won't be as sharp and certainly not as fast as a 135L but hey, 1/5th the price and solid chunk of metal construction, plus full-manual if video is your thing.
Also vintage lenses are often tiny, the aforementioned 35/2 is just 6cm long and weighs 370g, great for travel.


5DmkII | 24-70 f/2.8L II | Pentax 645Z | 55/2.8 SDM | 120/4 Macro | 150/2.8 IF
I acquired an expensive camera so I can hang out in forums, annoy wedding photographers during formals and look down on P&S users... all the while telling people it's the photographer, not the camera.

  
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TSchrief
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Sep 06, 2012 05:18 |  #5
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Some of the best glass out there is Contax/Yashica (C/Y) mount. Yashica ML or MC glass is much better than YUS or DSB. Vivitar also made (sold) a bunch nice lenses in this mount. Most of the better ones were actually made by Tokina. And of course, you can always go with Carl Zeiss glass ($$$). You can get an adapter for about $15. Just look for EOS-C/Y adapters. On a DSLR, focusing can be a problem at larger apertures. And on Canon DSLRs, be prepared for stopped-down metering, or better yet, buy a light meter. Stop down metering can be significantly off.


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TSchrief
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Sep 06, 2012 05:22 |  #6
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Kolor-Pikker wrote in post #14954254 (external link)
M42 is a very common mount for old lenses, quite a bit of them will work on full-frame, and all of them should work on crop due to the shorter mirror. I have a Russian 35mm f/2 lens that actually has bokeh very similar to what you posted, but only at certain distances, otherwise it's super creamy.

As for price... a lot of vintage glass is fairly cheap, an "expensive" lens is probably $300, you can get a great 135mm f/2.8 for $200 if you look around. It won't be as sharp and certainly not as fast as a 135L but hey, 1/5th the price and solid chunk of metal construction, plus full-manual if video is your thing.
Also vintage lenses are often tiny, the aforementioned 35/2 is just 6cm long and weighs 370g, great for travel.

I think some of these prices are a bit high. I got a Vivitar Series ONE 70-210 f/3.5 MC lens (c/y) for $99. I got a Yashica 135 f/2.8 MLc for $29. And a 50 1.9 MLc thrown in with an FX-3 Super 2000 that needed fixing. All really good glass, for next to nothing.


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Sirrith
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Sep 06, 2012 05:22 |  #7

Earwax69 wrote in post #14953876 (external link)
What are your takes on the subject?
Is it worth the hassle really?

That depends. I like using old lenses from time to time because I like the feel of MF on a proper MF lens. It is not, however, convenient. That said, when I'm in a studio situation, my most frequently used lens is an old russian Volna 9 50mm macro. Why? Because it is as sharp as modern lenses, old coatings aren't a problem because of controlled lighting, I use manual focus on tripod in those situations anyway, so its much nicer to use a lens designed for manual focus, I can set the aperture and see the DOF change without having to press the DOF preview button, and I don't have a modern 50mm macro lens, and there isn't such a lens in production that costs what I paid for my Volna, nor would the current models produce any better results in these conditions. Plus, there aren't any 135mm lenses made today that have 20 aperture blades like my Tair 11a, and thats just cool in a geeky photographer kind of way :)

KirkS518 wrote in post #14954004 (external link)
An old lens doesn't a 'Beautiful creamy bokeh' setting. An old lens is (for the most part) just an old lens.

But its not really "creamy" bokeh he's looking for, and thats where old lenses do have a use, even if it is only noticeable by the shooter in most cases; distinctive bokeh.


-Tom
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Shane ­ W
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Sep 06, 2012 05:44 |  #8

Old lenes are FUN to play around with! Yes, modern auto focus is great, but for the price of a couple pints of beer, you can buy some super old lenses. I bought an old pentax camera with the wanted Takumar 50mm f/1.4 lens off ebay for under $20 delivered! A Great lens, and so is the Vivitar 28mm f/2.5 I got for another $20 bill.

My advise is buy an m42 to eos adapter off ebay for cheap, then keep an eye out for old m42 thread lenses on the cheap!


Shane W

70D | Sig 10-20 | EF-S 15-85 | EF 70-200 2.8L | Sig 150-500 | Viv 28 2.5 | Sig 30 | Tak 50 1.4 [COLOR=blue]| EF 100 2.8 Macro | 1.4x TC | Nodal Ninja 3 | Tripods | Some Flashes | My flickr  (external link)

  
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Kolor-Pikker
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Sep 06, 2012 06:18 |  #9

TSchrief wrote in post #14954294 (external link)
I think some of these prices are a bit high. I got a Vivitar Series ONE 70-210 f/3.5 MC lens (c/y) for $99. I got a Yashica 135 f/2.8 MLc for $29. And a 50 1.9 MLc thrown in with an FX-3 Super 2000 that needed fixing. All really good glass, for next to nothing.

Depends on the rarity, really, it's not always about utility. $200 for a 135 is definitely a lot, but the lens in question (APO-TZ 135/2.8) is also rare and considered one of the sharpest lenses ever made for m42 mount. Still looking for an MC one in good condition.


5DmkII | 24-70 f/2.8L II | Pentax 645Z | 55/2.8 SDM | 120/4 Macro | 150/2.8 IF
I acquired an expensive camera so I can hang out in forums, annoy wedding photographers during formals and look down on P&S users... all the while telling people it's the photographer, not the camera.

  
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Earwax69
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Sep 06, 2012 08:07 |  #10

Thanks a lot for the advices! Point is, I live in Japan and I think it might be possible to get old lenses for cheap here. However since people now use online stores, it might be more difficult than I first thought.

@Shane W: Is your Takumar the one on this scary list??
http://camerapedia.wik​ia.com/wiki/Radioactiv​e_lenses (external link)


Canon 6D | S35mm f1.4 | 135mm f2 The rest: T3i, 20D, 15mm f2.8, 15-85mm, 24mm f2.8, 50mm f1.8, 85mm f1.8, 90mm f2.8 macro, 55-250mm.
So long and thanks for all the fish

  
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amfoto1
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Sep 06, 2012 15:15 |  #11

There are literally millions of usable, vintage lenses out there that can be adapted and used on your EOS camera.

The Bob Atkins link gives you a list of mounts to look for, the ones highlighted in green are the most easily adapted, don't require any optical correction to make them work normally. Those are all 35mm SLR mounts, I believe. As a rule, rangefinder camera lenses will not be adaptable... such as Leica-M bayonet or LTM screwmount. Those have far to short a register or flange to film plane distance. However, Leica R lenses for their line of SLRs, are adaptable and fall within the "green zone" list.

It's the same with the SLR lenses.... some simply have too short register and are hard to adapt.... Optics would be necessary for them to focus to infinity. Canon FD are an example. Konica K/AR (Atkins incorrectly calls it Konica F) is another that can't easily be adapted for use on EOS. Also Fujica X and Minolta MD. Shame, there are some great lenses in all these lines (some can be used on four/thirds mount DSLRs and EVILs, though).

Another problem you can run into with some of the more extreme designs is that they might have elements that protrude too far into your camera and interfere with it's mirror. Retrofocus designs that tend to do this are usually only found on extremely wide angle lenses, though.

However, there also simply weren't as many truly wide lenses available in the "good old days" of film. Most film cameras were "full frame", so a 21 or 20mm lens was consider ultra wide. That's simply not very wide, on a crop sensor digital today.

Vintage zooms might not be worth the trouble. Many of them weren't particularly good in the 1960s and 70s. Much better quality zooms sort of coincided with the transition to auto focus lenses in the late 1980s and especially the 1990s. Unfortunately, a lot of auto focus lenses, even if found in some of the usable mounts, are not going to be as adaptable.

To be usable, the vintage lens must provide both manual focus and manual aperture control. Some lenses were designed for auto aperture control only, so don't even have an aperture ring (some Nikon E-series, for example).

On the vintage market, you'll find that lenses which can still be used on modern cameras... Nikon AI/AI-S for example... tend to hold their value really well and might not be a bargain.

You'll also find lenses that were offered with interchangeable mounts, which even then were designed for adaptability. An example is the Tamron Adaptall/Adaptall-2 series, which included some fine lenses. This is different from adapting a lens... There's not an adapter involved. Instead you change out the entire mount to fit it to a modern EOS camera. Not long ago I picked up a Tamron 90mm macro lens for very little money and ordered an EOS mount for it from China. Works fine. The lens already had a Nikon mount on it, which I kept so I can use it on some vintage Nikon cameras. I also have Adaptall-2 mounts for vintage Konica, Olympus and Pentax cameras.

An interchangeable mount lens can be adapted for use on EOS, no matter what mount it presently on it. For example, if the Tamron 90mm I bought happened to have a Minolta MD mount on it, it would just be a matter of swapping that for an EOS mount. It came with a Nikon AI/AI-S, so I actually had a choice... I could either swap that out entierly for an EOS Adaptall-2 mount (which I did), or I could have used a Nikon AI/AI-S to EOS adapter on it. Either would work.

To a lesser degree, Vivitar and Soligor offered some interchangeable mount lenses too.

Earlier there were "T-mount" lenses, too. These were the original interchangeable mount lenses, some dating back to the early 1960s. It's a simple screw on mount that became very universal. The T stands for Tamron... they invented that interchangeable system too... but they didn't protect their patent and left it open for any manufacturer to offer lenses utilizing the mount system. So there are literally millions of T-mount lenses available too... and T-mounts for EOS are common and cheap.

Third party manufacturers offered lenses in many different non-interchageable mounts, too. Some cheap alternatives to the OEM lenses and maybe not worth much, others quite good with cult followings still today. Those can be adapted just the same as the camera manufacturer's own lenses.

For example, Vivitar never made their own lenses (still don't, for that matter), but sub-contracted out to various manufacturers. Some of their best lenses were called "Series 1" and were make by Tokina and Kiron, among others. For a while they used serial numbers the first two digits of which indicated who the original manufacturer was. I recall Kiron made "22xxxxx" serial numbered Vivitar lenses for a while. One model I used and found excellent was a 24mm f2 (not a Series 1, either... so usually pretty inexpensive). Another was a 100mm macro made by Tokina. You can find more info about their serial number designations and old Vivitar lenses online.

If you stick with relatively well-known third party manufacturers, do some research and are fairly selective, there are some wonderful old lenses around that you can adapt.

Be aware that all will be fully manual... both focus and aperture control. That means they are slower to work with and as you stop them down your viewfinder will dim, making manual focus more difficult with a camera that already might not be very "manual focus friendly". Live View might help. Or tethered shooting. Or use an angle finder accessory with the viewfinder.

Adapters and interchangeable lens mounts (such as the Adaptall-2) come in two varieties: those with and those without a chip installed. Those with it, the chip matches up to the electronic contacts on your EOS camera, making it possible to use Focus Confirmation (camera needs to be set to One Shot in advance, though). This isn't auto focus, but it can help. Though when you stop down, much beyond f8 and Focus Confirmation also fails due to lack of light.

Both these shots were made with the Tamron SP 90mm f2.5 lens mounted on one of my 7Ds....

IMAGE: http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5125/5283068575_5d2187dd6f_z.jpg
Bee on orange Poppy
Tamron SP 90/2.5 macro lens at f11. EOS 7D at ISO 400, 1/400 shutter speed. Handheld, available light.


IMAGE: http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5045/5283668382_8eb76f9e38_z.jpg

Poppy buds
Tamron SP 90/2.5 macro lens at f11, with 25mm extension tube (close to 1:1 mag). EOS 7D at ISO 400, 1/400 shutter speed. Handheld, ambient light.


Here's a shot of the lens on the camera....... And a shot of the lens off the camera, with the Nikon mount alongside...

IMAGE: http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5017/5453385847_10a2a40bec.jpg
IMAGE: http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5253/5431808414_f7b31fe45e.jpg

That lens - with hood, Nikon mount, caps & the matched 2X teleconverter - cost me all of $20 US at a local secondhand store. The EOS Apaptall-2 mount with chip cost about $40, off eBay, including shipping from China. $60 invested... not bad for a lens as capable as this one. I've owned and used several other copies of this lens over the years, so I already knew it was very good when I found it in the store. (And it's versatile... currently has the Nikon mount back on it and is being used along with a couple other lenses to run a test roll of film through a Nikon FG I bought not long ago).

When buying these old lenses you'll need to watch out for possible problems. Use a flash light or a bright backlight to inspect them inside for any sign of fungus (I had to pass on a nice 24mm f2.8 Olympus Zuiko the other day... looked new outside, but was full of fungus). Manually operate the aperture and check that it forms a nice round or hexagonal or octagonal shape... sometimes a worn blade makes for an uneven opening. Also look for oil on the aperture blades, which can seep in from the focusing mechanism as the grease there degrades over time. Watch for dings in the filter mounting ring, that might indicate it's had a hard knock... might be okay or might have problems inside. Operate the focusing mechanism to make sure it's smooth and doesn't have any play. Look for scratches on front and rear elements... one or two small ones on the front will probably do no harm, but if you find any on the rear should, probably pass on the lens no matter how cheap it's offered. Inspect closely for scratches around screws or any signs the lens has been taken apart. That can be a red flag, might indicate an amateur repair. Look for useful accessories included, such as the matching lens hood, lens caps, cases,etc. Some lenses also came with tripod mounting rings and special filters. It's always easier and usually cheaper to get accessories with the lens.

If you are looking for some specific focal length, do some research to narrow down to some top candidates, then just start watching for those specifically. Don't get into bidding on them in auctions too quickly, watch a few come and go to see how much they sell for, and/or research previous sales.

Not saying you'll often find a screamingly good bargain like I did with the 90mm Tamron macro lens (among others, over the years)... But if you keep your eyes open there are literally millions of vintage lenses out there that can be adapted for a second life on your EOS camera... Sometimes for very little money! Just learn to recognize the more easily adaptable mounts mentioned on Bob Atkins website as well as what T-mount and Adaptall lenses with interchangeable mounts look like, then keep a watch for them.

Alan Myers (external link) "Walk softly and carry a big lens."
5DII, 7DII, 7D, M5 & others. 10-22mm, Meike 12/2.8,Tokina 12-24/4, 20/2.8, EF-M 22/2, TS 24/3.5L, 24-70/2.8L, 28/1.8, 28-135 IS (x2), TS 45/2.8, 50/1.4, Sigma 56/1.4, Tamron 60/2.0, 70-200/4L IS, 70-200/2.8 IS, 85/1.8, Tamron 90/2.5, 100/2.8 USM, 100-400L II, 135/2L, 180/3.5L, 300/4L IS, 300/2.8L IS, 500/4L IS, EF 1.4X II, EF 2X II. Flashes, strobes & various access. - FLICKR (external link)

  
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jerbear00
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Sep 06, 2012 15:20 |  #12

KirkS518 wrote in post #14954004 (external link)
An old lens doesn't a 'Beautiful creamy bokeh' setting. An old lens is (for the most part) just an old lens.

Here's what will successfully work on your camera with the correct adapters:
http://www.bobatkins.c​om …faq/manual_focu​s_EOS.html (external link)

Is it worth the hassle? In some cases yes, but more than likely no.

Go get a nice 50mm 1.2L, or some other quality modern lens that gives the results you're looking for. It'll be less expensive in the long run.

I totally agree with Kirk here. Just save your pennies and get some good quality EF lenses. The canon 50 f1.8, 35 f2, and 85 1.8 are relatively inexpensive and grant excellent IQ for the buck (plus all 3 together are cheaper than the 50L). If you feel the need to upgrade later no problem. I have owned and sold these in the past here.


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bratkinson
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Sep 07, 2012 04:00 |  #13

I've considered getting some older glass, primarily Canon FD and FL series (FD mount) lenses. But rather than getting a somewhat 'normal' focal length lens (fixed or zoom), my plan is to get something well beyond what I have EF glass for already. Since it will be full manual operation, as well as not focusing to infinity (depends on whether the adapter has a lens in it or not), I'm limiting my potential uses to something where I have time to do everything manually, be it macro or long telephoto. Trying to capture a hawk in the air with full manual on a 400mm lens would be close to impossible for these old hands. I'd have to hold it steady as well.

In short, I'm considering old glass for doing some 'fun shooting', outside of what I normally shoot...if I ever get some time to do it.


"Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity." General George S Patton, Jr 1885-1945

  
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Sirrith
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Sep 07, 2012 05:23 |  #14

bratkinson wrote in post #14958640 (external link)
In short, I'm considering old glass for doing some 'fun shooting', outside of what I normally shoot...if I ever get some time to do it.

In that case, don't get FD or FL. Neither will focus to infinity without an adapter with glass (which means lower quality) on EF mount cameras.


-Tom
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F-Stop Guru review | RRS BH-40 review

  
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Earwax69
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Sep 07, 2012 08:42 |  #15

Wow, Amfoto1, thanks for the amazing post. A lot of great infos right there!


Canon 6D | S35mm f1.4 | 135mm f2 The rest: T3i, 20D, 15mm f2.8, 15-85mm, 24mm f2.8, 50mm f1.8, 85mm f1.8, 90mm f2.8 macro, 55-250mm.
So long and thanks for all the fish

  
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