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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Macro Talk 
Thread started 11 Sep 2012 (Tuesday) 16:56
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+1 diopter (77mm closeup filter) with 400mm f5.6

 
weeatmice
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Sep 11, 2012 16:56 |  #1

I've been thinking about one of these to help with shooting hovering dragonflies. They often hover too close for the 400mm (MFD is 3.35m)

I realise the 300 f4 IS would be better but I allready have the 400 for birding.

It seems like a +1 diopter (77mm closeup filter) might be a useful and lightweight addition. I found this post, and using the same maths calculated a MFD of 0.76m with a +1 filter. I assume that these +1 closeup filters are actually +1 diopters.

I may have a go with an ultra elcheapo chinese one, I know they'll be optically awful but would suffice to test if it is a viable option.

Has anyone tried this, or have any thoughts?


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halitime
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Sep 11, 2012 19:00 |  #2

Do you have extension tubes you can try?


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LordV
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Sep 12, 2012 00:51 |  #3

Seems like a good idea. Not sure what the max focus distance would be though - you don't want to be putting it on and taking it off all the time if the dragon moves slighty further away.

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weeatmice
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Sep 12, 2012 03:41 |  #4

Yeah, I'm not certain how to calculate focus distance at infinity focus just yet. It wont be very far though I expect.

I've tried tubes, the full kenko set helps a bit but makes the setup really long.


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Lester ­ Wareham
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Sep 15, 2012 05:33 |  #5

weeatmice wrote in post #14980225 (external link)
Yeah, I'm not certain how to calculate focus distance at infinity focus just yet. It wont be very far though I expect.

I've tried tubes, the full kenko set helps a bit but makes the setup really long.

I tried some rough sums here but I have no idea how accurate it is
http://www.zen20934.ze​n.co.uk …ment.htm#Closeu​p%20Lenses (external link)

Follow the ToC link to Close-up lenses if it does not go straight there.

Should be a working distance at infinity of about 1000mm by definition, magnification about 0.4X.

At minimum focus closest focus should give about 0.5x with a working distance of about 770mm.

This is all theory though with no checking.

I was shooting migrant hawkers in flight earlier this week using the 300 f4 IS + 1.4X.

I used the same setup on the 7D as I do for birds in flight, 8 fps, expanded focus point and manual exposure. I haven't processed yet but a quick glance suggests some keepers.

This setup was giving frame filling results if they were hovering, the focus distance was recorded as 2.4 metre in the EXIF but I suspect that is not that accurate.

Aeshna mixta is about 63mm long so to allow some negative space with this species you need a magnification of about 0.3X. Based on this you might get too much magnification with a 400mm and 1 dioptre but is too much to get easily with tubes on a 400mm.


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Crimzon
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Sep 23, 2012 21:43 |  #6

I don't know what brand you were thinking of. But I have tried off brand diopters, and the chromatic aberrations are astoundingly bad. However from what I hear by word of mouth, (friends of mine who do photography) the canon diopters aren't much better. They say even the canon dipters produce noticeable CA. Plus I can't imagine a 77mm diopter being cheap, at least for a quality one.

I use all my tubes stacked on my 400mm 5.6 frequently. It does make it rather long, but I'm pretty sure you will not get better results using a diopter. I use cheap off brand tubes from ebay. Since there is no glass at all, there is 0% IQ difference between canon/kenko and off brand. It is rather comical how long and skinny the 400mm gets with 3 tubes stacked, but I see no other downside other then it looking funny.


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weeatmice
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Sep 24, 2012 16:56 |  #7

I did get a very very cheap one just to test the near and far focus distances. It worked, I was hoping for more range - its quite limited (about 0.7m to 1m) Optically it is junk but I was expecting that. If I liked the range I was going to look for a good one.

I guess tubes would probably be better and I think I'll give them another try.


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Lester ­ Wareham
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Sep 25, 2012 02:48 |  #8

weeatmice wrote in post #15037101 (external link)
I did get a very very cheap one just to test the near and far focus distances. It worked, I was hoping for more range - its quite limited (about 0.7m to 1m) Optically it is junk but I was expecting that. If I liked the range I was going to look for a good one.

I guess tubes would probably be better and I think I'll give them another try.

Sounds like my theoretical calculations were spot on then.

You will not get any more range control with tubes I don't think.

For 0.25x at infinity set you will need 100mm of tubes. I don't have a figure for close focus magnification. I guess that setup would work ok with the larger BF and DF.


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Larry ­ Weinman
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Sep 26, 2012 09:01 |  #9

I have a Canon 500D closeup achromatic diopter that I carry around and use mainly on a 70-200mm lens for flower photography. It works quite well for that and I have never noticed a problem with CA. The focusing however is slowed quite a bit and for that reason I don't think it would work that well for hovering DF. The Canon 500D has been out of stock for over a year and nobody seems to know if Canon will get around to making some. I have heard that the Marumi two element diopters are pretty good.


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Lester ­ Wareham
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Sep 26, 2012 14:25 |  #10

For hovering DFs I find the best thing is my 300f4 IS + 1.4x, that gives quite tight framing without additional accessories.


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weeatmice
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Sep 26, 2012 15:13 |  #11

Yes I suspect there isnt anything that will beat that setup for this kind of thing, and you can still focus all the way out to infinity.


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Lester ­ Wareham
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Sep 27, 2012 01:51 |  #12

weeatmice wrote in post #15046313 (external link)
Yes I suspect there isnt anything that will beat that setup for this kind of thing, and you can still focus all the way out to infinity.

It is very flexible. Now I have the 180L I don't often use it for DFs, but it is beter for IF. Also works well for birds but the 400/5.6 will be sharper and faster af I would think.

I got the 300 specifically because the relativly close focus makes it very flexible.


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+1 diopter (77mm closeup filter) with 400mm f5.6
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