Canon 60D manual mode (M)

apersson850 wrote in post #14985741
Nobody "has" to. But most "want" to. Which picture style are you using? Which sharpening setting do you have in the picture style? DPP has done it for years, and I've understood that more and more non-Canon software reads and uses the camera's shooting settings as a base point for their RAW conversion. Perhaps you are sharpening automatically, without knowing it?

Still, it doesn't relate to you shooting in manual or not.

I know I don't have to sharpen. I am trying to figure out why my images already look as though they have been sharpened. If its automatic then I would like to take control of my own sharpening.

The possibility exists that you are selecting a higher shutter speed when shooting manual than the camera would otherwise choose in one of the auto modes, thus giving you a sharper image. It could also be that shooting manual is forcing you to slow down a bit and think more, which may be having a positive side effect on your hand-holding technique. Correlation is not causation Shooting in manual mode doesn't make your images sharper, but it does force you to change the way you shoot.

mdaddyrabbit wrote in post #14985761
I know I don't have to sharpen. I am trying to figure out why my images already look as though they have been sharpened. If its automatic then I would like to take control of my own sharpening.

It doesn't make sense because the modes only affect exposure. The only thing I can think of is that you are coincidentally nailing focus when you are in manual mode.

Go take some shots in the different modes and post them so we can see what you're trying to explain.

I have always had to sharpen everything that came out of my Canon 20D when shooting in RAW. I hardly ever need to sharpen anything out of the Canon 60D. I have tried it in Photoshop and Lightroom.

mdaddyrabbit wrote in post #14985786
I have always had to sharpen everything that came out of my Canon 20D when shooting in RAW. I hardly ever need to sharpen anything out of the Canon 60D. I have tried it in Photoshop and Lightroom.

You have to ask yourself what is constant and what has changed. Were you shooting the 20D in manual mode? Were you using the same version of Lr? Were you using the same lenses? Has your technique improved? Does Lr apply the same contrast/tone curve and sharpening for your 20D and 60D? Are you using the same monitor? Have you checked the image exif data to see any setting difference relative to scene lighting between the "sharp" manual shots and the "soft" auto shots?
There are a lot of things that can account for this perceived difference, the shooting mode is not one of them (directly anyway).

I have changed somethings since using the 60D. I stop using the Canon 28-135mm and bought the Sigma 17-70mm f2.8 IS. I am using a Samsung Series 9, 15" Ultrabook for editing. I have always shot in (M) Manual even on the Canon 20D.

Okay, first of all, as previous replies mention, using manual mode does not effect sharpening one way or another. All it does is leave you in control of all the exposure settings (shutter speed, aperture size and ISO).

Also understand that your camera always takes RAWs.... all digital cameras do. You can choose to directly store that file to the memory card. When RAW files are stored, no processing is applied at that time, but record is made of the profile/style you have set. You can instead set the camera to save JPEGs, to process the images in-camera, in which case the profile/style will be applied and that includes the level of in-camera sharpening you have set (or was preset for you). Or you can set the camera to save both RAW + JPEG, where the profile will be recorded but not used in the RAW and applied to the JPEG.

Besides M or Manual mode, several auto exposure modes also allow you to shoot RAW files. Those are P/Program, Av/Aperture Priority and Tv/Shutter Priority. In P mode, you set the ISO and the camera chooses both the shutter speed and aperture size to give correct exposure. In Av mode, you set the ISO and also the size of the aperture, the camera chooses a shutter speed that gives correct exposure. In Tv, you set ISO and choose the shutter speed you want to use, and the camera adjusts the aperture as needed to automatically give correct exposure.

All these exposure modes allow you to shoot RAW files (or JPEGs or RAW+JPEG if you wish).

Now, if you use one of the scene modes (sports, landscape, portrait, etc.) the camera will automatically make JPEGs, won't allow you to save the images as RAW files. These are even more highly automated modes, where many of the image settings are chosen for you, including shutter speeds and apertures and limitations on available ISOs and the focus setup... plus the type of file that's being stored. They force you to save JPEGs and don't allow you to change the in-camera settings to dial down sharpness.

Okay, so you are using an exposure mode that allows you to save RAW files. Just keep in mind that the picture style settings you have selected will be recorded, just not automatically applied in most cases. The only time they will be automatically applied is if you use Canon's own Digital Photo Pro RAW file converter and leave it set to "Ad shot" mode, where it uses whatever was set in the camera. This should be identical to letting the camera process the RAW itself and save it as a JPEG. But, you have the option of overriding what it's doing.

However, using a third party softwares to do RAW conversions such as you are, those picture style settings recorded in the RAW file are not being applied automatically. Instead, the software uses its own settings. As mentioned above, Lightroom by default applies a little (+25). The same with CS5... if you open the CR2 RAW file directly in Adobe Camera Raw that Photoshop uses, it also defaults to +25 sharpness. You can dial it up or down, as needed.

Plus, when you Export or Print from Lightroom, you are again given the option of applying more sharpening, more specific to output but rather simplified: none, or "sharpen for screen" or "sharpen for matte or glossy print" and low, medium or high).

It takes some practice and is a bit up to personal taste how much sharpening to apply. I see a lot of images on the Internet that I consider way oversharpened... But the folks who made those might look at my images and think I need to do more sharpening.

Too much sharpening adds artifacts. It also will enhance noise within an image.

There are various sharpening techniques. Experiment with them to see what works for you. Unsharp mask and Smart sharpen are two in CS5. There is also high pass filter sharpening. Basically sharpening is enhancement of micro contrast, though that oversimplifies it. Sharpening can and often should be applied selectively. I often add blur to backgrounds and sharpness to only the subject and ground immediately around them. This often means doing gradations of sharpness/blur. Takes a bit of work in Photoshop, but can be the real finishing touch on images.

Usually a small amount of sharpening like this is needed initially. Later more may be needed when the image has be sized for some particularly use. The size and resolution of the image will dictate how much sharpening should or can be used. A JPEG made for an 11x14 print at 240 ppi will handle, might even need more sharpening than a 400x600 pixel image that's going to used on a web page. Save some sharpening for the final image, when you have decided it's purpose.

mdaddyrabbit wrote in post #14985715
I am not explaining my self right. I too hardly ever have to sharpen in post processing. Thats what I trying to ask, why do I not have to sharpen when shooting in Manual?

Probably because you're getting your focus and exposure set well when you're controlling things. You're worrying about too much little stuff I have plenty of photos that I apply little to no sharpening on when I get the image right at shooting time.

Worry when the photos you take DON'T come out well. Worrying when they DO is just sort of silly

mdaddyrabbit wrote in post #14985786
I have always had to sharpen everything that came out of my Canon 20D when shooting in RAW. I hardly ever need to sharpen anything out of the Canon 60D. I have tried it in Photoshop and Lightroom.

If you've never had to sharpen anything that the 60D produced, you are either the luckiest photog on the planet, or you are not pushing that camera very hard. I PP every keeper shot above ISO 1600, and that involves NR and some sharpening on each and every one of them. Or perhaps I am not doing something properly!

Maybe the software you are using now does read the camera's sharpening setting, and applies it to the RAW as a default?

You've still not answered my question about which picture style you shoot with, and how you have that set up.

apersson850 wrote in post #14987134
Maybe the software you are using now does read the camera's sharpening setting, and applies it to the RAW as a default?

You've still not answered my question about which picture style you shoot with, and how you have that set up.

Oh, sorry I don't understand what you are asking. Please explain it to me and I will find it. I am so sorry the question slipped my brain earlier because I was at work.

I'm simply asking which picture style you use when taking your pictures, and what are the four detailed settings you can do inside that picture style?

Some RAW processing software does read Canon's settings at the time the photo was taken as their default, and if so, it could simply be that the default (what the camera is set to) is satisfactory for you.

The OP says he/she (probably "he" from the user name) uses Lightroom and CS5. Lightroom does not use the in-camera settings, but it does apply a default level of sharpening automatically when you process RAW files, so unless you've set the default to 0 your RAW files are being sharpened, whether shot in manual or any other shooting mode.

I will have the information this afternoon, as I will be off work. In lightroom when opening up an image into Photoshop would it carry the settings over?

mdaddyrabbit wrote in post #14990444
I will have the information this afternoon, as I will be off work. In lightroom when opening up an image into Photoshop would it carry the settings over?

What settings? If you mean picture style settings, Lightroom and Photoshop basically ignore those. If you mean sharpening applied by Lightroom, yes that carries over into Photoshop.

If shooting RAW, there is only one way sharpening will be applied at the RAW conversion stage and that is by the RAW converter software. It may follow your in-camera picture style sharpness setting, which is what DPP does, or it may not, which is what Lightroom does. Since you have Lightroom, the only sharpness setting that's relevant is the sharpness setting in Lightroom. Open a new RAW file that you haven't processed before in Lightroom and look at the sharpening slider in the develop module - what number is the slider on? If it's on 0, no sharpening is being applied; if there's a positive number, some degree of sharpening is being applied.