Avoiding umbrella reflection in glass

Hello all--I have a wedding tomorrow on the top floor of a hotel with a rotating restaurant with an outer wall that is all window.

I'd love to be able to expose for the view of the city beyond the glass whilst exposing the family (via group shots) with my off-camera flash + umbrella.

Is there a way to do these group photos that would avoid both the glare created by my flash as well as the reflection of the umbrella ?

If it wasn't clear, this 'window' is round and forms a complete circle (horizontally) around the hub of the restaurant.

Thanks !

Christopher Steven b wrote in post #14992316
Hello all--I have a wedding tomorrow on the top floor of a hotel with a rotating restaurant with an outer wall that is all window.

I'd love to be able to expose for the view of the city beyond the glass whilst exposing the family (via group shots) with my off-camera flash + umbrella.

Is there a way to do these group photos that would avoid both the glare created by my flash as well as the reflection of the umbrella ?

If it wasn't clear, this 'window' is round and forms a complete circle (horizontally) around the hub of the restaurant.

Thanks !

Hmmm Challenging!
Is it day or evening reception [assuming daytime].
We have a PO tower like that in London - even without a flash the curvature reflects a lot of reflected 'landscape' youre going too have to get that flash quite a way to the side. Or you need advice from someone real good.

^ Good point. Ceremony starts at 7ish; formals will start around 8ish. The outdoors will still be lit up reasonably, so it might not be as much of an issue as I first thought.

Far to the side is how I'd normally shoot anyway (I push as far off axis as I can until i'm out of Rembrandt lighting zone). It's possible i could also flag (block) the umbrella in this case (but with what !?).

Alternatively I could position my light nearer to on-axis (a couple of feet to my left e.g.) and then the reflection / glare will largely be occluded / hidden by the people in the photo. Of course the downside there is that the lighting just isn't as nice.

I'm thinking layers in post will be easiest.

Circular polarizer to cut the reflection would be my first reaction...

Angle of incident equals the angle of reflectance. It is what it is.

Circular polarizer as mentioned above

Make a composite shot in post. Camera on tripod, first shoot with no people and expose for outside. Then shoot your family shots without moving the camera. Now combine as separate layers in PS.

munzzzzzzz wrote in post #14994309
Make a composite shot in post. Camera on tripod, first shoot with no people and expose for outside. Then shoot your family shots without moving the camera. Now combine as separate layers in PS.

What would actually really be good about this is that you could selectively choose exactly what you want in the background of your image (easier). As the OP mentioned, the restaurant is actually turning, so the background would constantly be different for the group shot. However, to shoot the BG with the intention of it being a separate layer would allow you to wait and choose what's out there without forcing the group to wait as well.

That said, I think it would be easier to setup the group shot first, and the BG shot second... ensuring that your frame doesn't change would make the post-processing easier. I certainly don't know how well I would be able to predict the frame of a group shot before hand - I would get them all placed and then end up having to make an adjustment to fit in Uncle Bob then my layers wouldn't match.

Good luck with a CPL. Aside from not really eliminating the reflection, It's not food for rendering skin.

windpig wrote in post #14994527
Good luck with a CPL. Aside from not really eliminating the reflection, It's not food for rendering skin.

I think this will be correct under these lighting conditions.

Forget polarisers, t'won't work in this context at all. In addition to not removing flash hotspots effectively, they will reduce your ambient light by maybe a couple of f/stops and genreally make life very awkward indeed.
Is the glass simply curved in one plane (ie it curves round the circumference of the building) and straight vertically? If so, the best option (by no means a perfect solution but probably the best you'll get) is to place the flash as high as you can get it - probably directly above the camera and touching the ceiling. No good moving it to the side with the curve running round - you'll get a hotspot somewhere no matter what you do.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions.

I hadn't even considered a polarizing filter (though have used one before). I'm game for losing a couple of stops of light but I'm concerned about flare issues and other weirdness that might crop up with light pouring in in front of my lens. Shoot-if I had one to experiment with, i might have tried it.

The glass is only curved in one plane, yes (as far as I know !). So you're right, that placing the flash up high may be the ticket.

I'm going to try way off axis to see how badly it shows up in the reflection (I'll take mediocre light + hotspot over good light + hotspot if given the choice); if it's bad I'll try bouncing without the umbrella--this will render my light source (a large swatch of ceiling) basically invisible from the perspective of its impact on the window.

I wish I could let you know how this went but the wedding involves military folk who have asked for discretion. Maybe I'll grab a few non-peopled shots for demonstration, though..

windpig wrote in post #14993288
Angle of incident equals the angle of reflectance. It is what it is.

+1 for this and getting the light up as high as possible and I would suggest shooting down ever so slightly to eliminate reflection even more.

raise your strobe head 8 feet over the subject point from the floor. shoot from a small ladder that get you at least 3 feet off the floor.

have the subject with glasses drop their chins until you can't see any reflections through the camera, or on a test shot.