Anyone done the photography degree online thing?

Folks, stop the name calling and the childish behavior. A complete violation of POTN rules.

Okay, this thread has been cleaned up.

Let me reiterate - stop the name calling and the ridiculous behavior. Please review the rules if you're unclear regarding the expectations here.

airfrogusmc wrote in post #14999166
The ones I hire to work do and its not elitism its knowledge thats needed to work with the people I have to work with.

But why do you assume that they don't have that knowledge if they don't have a degree? I repeatedly asked you this before the thread got "cleaned up" but you've still not really answered the question. That's what I'm saying is elitist - not knowledge, but your assumption that someone wouldn't have certain knowledge just because they didn't have a degree. In other words, you assume that a self-taught photographer would lack knowledge simply because they didn't go to university, but that's a pretty big assumption to make. There are plenty of kick-ass self-taught people in all creative fields, many of whom can run circles around people with formal education.

To assume that self-taught people are less knowledgeable is pointlessly elitist. Which is why most most companies in creative fields consider portfolio the most important thing when decided who to hire. Formal qualifications may help with things like international immigration and whatnot, but when it comes to deciding who to hire, it's going to be portfolio, along with personality, in most cases.

Most seasoned art directors, account managers and graphic designers all know how deceptive a portfolio alone can be. Thats why rely on other friends in their fields to make recommendations and to see the ad campaigns that you've worked on. A portfolio is no gauge of whether the photographer can work under the stress and pressure of having to create on demand and create something that is a collaboration in many cases and how well the photographer works with all the players and how the well the project gets to completion. A portfolio is one small piece of a large whole. To be able to get a job with some of the organizations that have full time positions a B/A is usually just one of the requirements along with a strong portfolio, experience and usually depending on the position good people skills. These full time positions have become very rare over the past few years.

Yes, of course portfolios can be deceptive. But so can qualifications. Anyone can get a degree from some random place that has no standards, because frankly many of those exist - for-profit schools that'll accept anyone with the money for the fees, who they'll pass and give a degree to because they want to have a high pass rate. That's why every time anyone makes a hire without a personal recommendation, they're always going to be taking a risk. But that's part of human resourcing and everyone knows that, which is why so many companies have a three month probation period to ensure the person really does live up to their original application.

And I still vehemently disagree with you that most companies would insist upon formal qualifications. There are very, very few who would absolutely refuse to hire someone simply because they don't have a BA.

onona wrote in post #14999368
But why do you assume that they don't have that knowledge if they don't have a degree? I repeatedly asked you this before the thread got "cleaned up" but you've still not really answered the question. That's what I'm saying is elitist - not knowledge, but your assumption that someone wouldn't have certain knowledge just because they didn't have a degree. In other words, you assume that a self-taught photographer would lack knowledge simply because they didn't go to university, but that's a pretty big assumption to make. There are plenty of kick-ass self-taught people in all creative fields, many of whom can run circles around people with formal education.

To assume that self-taught people are less knowledgeable is pointlessly elitist. Which is why most most companies in creative fields consider portfolio the most important thing when decided who to hire. Formal qualifications may help with things like international immigration and whatnot, but when it comes to deciding who to hire, it's going to be portfolio, along with personality, in most cases.

I never said they don't but I do know if they've graduated from certain schools and after the interview that they do have the knowledge I require and that save me a lot of time.

And again I never said that someone self taught isn't knowledgeable. But you keep dropping the elitist word. Yes there are self taught creatives that kick ass as well as many educated creatives that kick ass and my point is the more tools you have in the box with knowledge being one the better the odds are for success and its only going to get more and more difficult especially in the areas that specialized skill sets are not requires.

onona wrote in post #14999393
Yes, of course portfolios can be deceptive. But so can qualifications. Anyone can get a degree from some random place that has no standards, because frankly many of those exist - for-profit schools that'll accept anyone with the money for the fees, who they'll pass and give a degree to because they want to have a high pass rate. That's why every time anyone makes a hire without a personal recommendation, they're always going to be taking a risk. But that's part of human resourcing and everyone knows that, which is why so many companies have a three month probation period to ensure the person really does live up to their original application.

And I still vehemently disagree with you that most companies would insist upon formal qualifications. There are very, very few who would absolutely refuse to hire someone simply because they don't have a BA.

But qualifications, a strong portfolio and good experience will even give more confidence to the perspective employer.

Your right I have no clue as to what I'm talking about. I've just lived it and have several good friends that are living it to. But what do I know. When I got my job it was a requirement along with strong references, a very strong portfolio, a very in depth background check, 5 years professional experience and a lengthy interview process. And I would be as successful today or working in the field I now work in if it weren't for that job and 10 years of connections and learning how to work in that environment. But the degree and the work of course set it all up.

Again I never said a degree from any old place in fact thats why I'm saying to the OP that online is maybe not the best place to get a degree. That a good school with a good program with good professors would be a better choice.

airfrogusmc wrote in post #14999402
I never said they don't

But you did insinuate it. Which is what I'd consider elitist. There's no good reason to assume that a self-taught person wouldn't know about triadic colours, to use your example. Your post absolutely insinuated that a self-taught person wouldn't know how to do a triadic colour setup.

But you do keep insinuating this. I'm honestly confounded by why you keep denying this. Because you keep saying again and again (especially before a bunch of posts got nuked) that it's "knowledge" that's important, ergo that's why degrees are important, and by saying this, you're suggesting that a graduate always has more knowledge than someone self-taught; sure, it might be true in some cases, but then the reverse (self-taught knowing more than a graduate) may also be true in just as many. The point is that you can't make such broad assumptions. A person's ability is specific to that individual, and to assume that a self-taught person knows less than a graduate is, as I keep saying, elitist, because it's an unfair assumption to make.

airfrogusmc wrote in post #14999419
Your right I have no clue as to what I'm talking about.

I didn't say that. But clearly you're not actually willing to have a rational discussion here as evidenced by this silly remark, so I'm just going to get out of this thread before your attitude starts annoying me. Cheers.

No I didn't. Go back and fully read what I wrote. I think most of my posts are still there. I think I said I know both self taught and educated photographers that have both done well in previous posts. I went on to say that in the right school it will take a lot less time and the very nature will push you into areas outside your comfort zone which in many cases might not be entered into if one is self learning. You made the assumption not I. See #14...

onona wrote in post #14999436
I didn't say that. But clearly you're not actually willing to have a rational discussion here as evidenced by this silly remark, so I'm just going to get out of this thread before your attitude starts annoying me. Cheers.

My evidence is real. Its what I've lived. I have never been without work in over 25years. I have fully supported my family with this profession. You are leaving because I have not made this personal, you have,and you have yet to show me where I have said the things you accuse me of saying. I have said I usually only hire graduates to assist me. I clearly stated the reasons. Apparently you just don't like the answers I give. It doesn't make them any less true.