Canon eos 6d offically announced

kasey wrote in post #15007696
They could have reduced their cost and improved their supply chain efficiency if they consolidate their FF sensors into just a couple of lines, rather then tweaking them slightly just for the sake of differentiation. Having 18mp, 20mp, 21mp, 22mp at the same time is just pure madness.

You claim to know a bit about product design and manufacturing processes. But without Canon's internal stats and costs it's impossible to make any serious comment on Canon's cost and manufacturing processes. I think it is questionable when someone on the outside of their company makes quite directed, uninformed and unfounded critisism. I'm glad it's not you who are designing my cameras...
Chip design and manufacturing is not made cheaper by replication and mass production. There's cost in the design, but the etching is done by a machine at the press of a button and the real cost is the silicon wafer...and that's a set price. I have no problem with unique sensors for each product....Canon have been doing this for years, even though the pixel count was the same. People always say...oh Canon have just popped the same sensor in the XXXD camera which was in the XXD...and yet they mostly are unique designs based on the fps requirements of the camera.

I'm sure Canon have done their homework and product focus groups and I'm sure the 6D will be a big hit for them. The 5D and 5DII were BIG sellers and Canon really knows this market better than any of us. If the 6D is not your bag....then don't buy it, but for millions of pro-sumers, it's going to be just their thang.

I want to chime in on this after reading through it all. I am the target consumer of this camera, and we will see if I decide to get this or a 5dmii, but here are some rational thoughts.

1. It very well could have better high ISO quality than a 5dmii.

2. It very well could have a better af system than a 5dii

3. It will be a few hundred less in a few months, how do you like it at say $1700 if it gets there before too long?

4. You could pair this with a 60d and have a very nice budget kit that is capable of great pics for all situations. I am considering this.

5. You all are mostly coming off as people who think you are not just ansel Adams, but electrical engineers as well. Ridiculous you expect 1d specs in this thing, and then act like "well I guess I just need to get the 5 d3", well that is why it is there. This thing will likely be a better overall camera than the 5dii and hence why canon is obviously replacing the 5dii with it.

6. You want the 7d af? On a ff? Really? The reason someone would want an introductory ff is certainly not for sports and fast action, which is another reason the 1/4000 shutter speed is somewhat understandable. I don't like that limitation, but I get it.

7. Everyone here wants to act so awesome and too good for this and that but guaranteed if there were 30 pictures from this camera and a d600 you couldn't figure out which 15 were from each camera, so to continue to call this thing crappy sight unseen and without knowledge of its end results is stupid. What do you guys use your cameras for? To show off your specs to other photographers? I use mine to take pictures and as long as the end result is nice, and the body comfortably got me there, who gives a crap? Don't even act like you could tell the difference between finished pics with this and the d600 because you know you can't, especially with pp these days. So how is one so much better?


I am being very devils advocate, and I get that some features missing are wanted, but everyone here (including myself) loves the 5dc images and the awesomeness of that full frame feel. What if canon simply is offering a NEW upgraded 5dc, that may be about $800 more than a good condition 5dc. I think the point is To be a nice, new, ff camera. NOT a spec monster, but a 2012 5dc. Is that really that bad?

Neilyb wrote in post #15007625
I often use most of the outlying points on my 1DIV, just useful to get your comp right in camera rather than have to crop. Recomposing just does not work for me.

right, i dont remember when i last even used the centre point. Its 95% the outer points that i rely on to get the focus on the eyes. Recomposing with the centre point at large apertures just ruins images. So for me this camera has been destroyed. The only FF camera worth buying is the 5Diii which is steep for my pockets. Im still waiting on a decent FF camera and dont tell me about the Nikon D600, its merely many cross sensors in the centre which i will never get to use.

6D has wifi, but no direct print button? would have been useful here.

Well, I dunno if this was posted but i found this just a lil ago

http://www.pocket-lint.com …slr-pictures-and-hands-on

Some quotes:

@kasey:

Yeah, I though your sarcasm was too aggressive and wanted you to taste your own medecine. I admit it was stupid of me and I apologize for being rude. Your last comment is better constructed and I agree on most points. However I believe the price will drop soon enough and make the whole deal more attractive. There's no reviews yet and it's too early to conclude anything decisive.

GMCPhotographics wrote in post #15007885
You claim to know a bit about product design and manufacturing processes. But without Canon's internal stats and costs it's impossible to make any serious comment on Canon's cost and manufacturing processes. I think it is questionable when someone on the outside of their company makes quite directed, uninformed and unfounded critisism. I'm glad it's not you who are designing my cameras...
Chip design and manufacturing is not made cheaper by replication and mass production. There's cost in the design, but the etching is done by a machine at the press of a button and the real cost is the silicon wafer...and that's a set price. I have no problem with unique sensors for each product....Canon have been doing this for years, even though the pixel count was the same. People always say...oh Canon have just popped the same sensor in the XXXD camera which was in the XXD...and yet they mostly are unique designs based on the fps requirements of the camera.

I'm sure Canon have done their homework and product focus groups and I'm sure the 6D will be a big hit for them. The 5D and 5DII were BIG sellers and Canon really knows this market better than any of us. If the 6D is not your bag....then don't buy it, but for millions of pro-sumers, it's going to be just their thang.

I don't claim to know about their processes. But if someone can show me a scenario where one can produce 4 different lines of products that is more efficient than one single line, let me know. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out. Instead of having to monitor the demand for 4 different lines of products and adjust your production for 4 of them, you manufacture one single line of sensor which can replace any other line at any time when shortage occur. This eliminates bottlenecks and glut and also costs in maintaining 4 different fabrication configurations / or worse, alternating the configurations for fabrication. The overhead is always there, its just a matter of how much. Thats a given.

Of course, the overheads can be justified if there is a need to have 4 different designs. The problem is, I have a hard time seeing how the 20 and 22 mp sensors with the same ISO spec released in quick succession could justify that.

Just because a company has been doing that for years, doesn't mean that always work, especially in technology. Look at what GM, Nokia and Kodak have been doing for years. I rest my case. Its precisely this kind of COMPLACENCY that kills them.

Earwax69 wrote in post #15008021
@kasey:

Yeah, I though your sarcasm was too aggressive and wanted you to taste your own medecine. I admit it was stupid of me and I apologize for being rude. Your last comment is better constructed and I agree on most points. However I believe the price will drop soon enough and make the whole deal more attractive. There's no reviews yet and it's too early to conclude anything decisive.

Apology accepted. In the hope of being a bit lightheartedm I was being too sarcastic and its not to everyone's taste, for that its my turn to apologize.

KenjiS wrote in post #15008019
Well, I dunno if this was posted but i found this just a lil ago

http://www.pocket-lint.com …slr-pictures-and-hands-on

Some quotes:

Like you said, after the rage subsides, people will realize it's not such a "loser" camera after all...
Still debating if it'll be a worthy upgrade for me or keep on saving for the 5D3. Either way, I think it'll be a decent addition to Canon's dSLR arsenal.

It could be they are using the same 22MP sensor but binning pixels down to 20MP. I have no idea if it is possible but who knows.

Neilyb wrote in post #15008044
It could be they are using the same 22MP sensor but binning pixels down to 20MP. I have no idea if it is possible but who knows.

Ohh, good suggestion. Silicon wafers do have failure rates, dust landing on the wafer during manufacturing can destroy the microscopic circuits on the chips. So Canon is going to have a bunch of reject sensors with a few faulty pixels. Lower the megapixels and turning off the faulty pixels, would allow Canon to save money by reusing faulty sensors.
Though lots of sites are quoting figures for a pixel pitch of 6.55 microns, which does not fit in with this idea.

kasey wrote in post #15008032
Just because a company has been doing that for years, doesn't mean that always work, especially in technology. Look at what GM, Nokia and Kodak have been doing for years. I rest my case. Its precisely this kind of COMPLACENCY that kills them.

Nokia is bouncing back at least, the Lumia 920 looks like a killer phone... Heres hoping their betting on Win Phone isnt a mistake..

As for the sensor, I'm thinking its a new design...

Mornnb wrote in post #15008071
Ohh, good suggestion. Silicon wafers do have failure rates, dust landing on the wafer during manufacturing can destroy the microscopic circuits on the chips. So Canon is going to have a bunch of reject sensors with a few faulty pixels. Lower the megapixels and turning off the faulty pixels, would allow Canon to save money by reusing faulty sensors.
Though lots of sites are quoting figures for a pixel pitch of 6.55 microns, which does not fit in with this idea.

Like nVidia does with graphics cards... If some of the stream processors/shaders/wha​tever dont work, sell it anyways at a lower price as a lower model with the malfunctioning pipes turned off... Sometimes this is a bad thing though (GTX465 comes to mind)

h14nha wrote in post #15006311
FFS Canon, no 100% coverage at a camera aimed at landscapers Possibly 1 usuable AF point, a horrible touch screen that will show all greasy fingerprints and drive you crazy. NO INNOVATION WHATSOEVER !!!!!
I was really hoping and praying Canon would pull something out of the bag to compete with the competition. After all that was said about how they listened to everyone, and gave people what they asked for in the 5Diii they now undo all that with a rehashed 5Dc with a few more MP.
I assume the target market is someone who has a kit line up like me. I will have to sell my 17-55 to go FF. Once I've done that the market opens up hugely for me. Keep my 7d for reach with my telephoto's, then now maybe go Nikon/Sony with the equiv lens.
I'm truly stunned, I had an email in work from WEX to say the 6d had been announced. I didn't have time to read anything until I got home late tonight. I've now stayed up till 2:45 am to read all these pages and I can't believe what the specs are. If this sensor isn't ASTOUNDING then Canon are going to be dead in the water for the next 10 years. Don't give us gimmicks, give us DR.
I wonder will banding be an issue on this 20mp sensor..........

Hey, it's just a camera, and an extra add-on to their lineup at that. This isn't the "absolutely must succeed FF camera or Canon is out of business" that people seem to be characterizing it as. I see this as a fill to their lineup to capture a certain, probably relatively small, segment of their overall potential customer base. From a business standpoint this camera probably makes perfect sense to them, even if not to you.

Wow all this complaining at this price point, you guys want a 1Dx for a price of a rebel?
I'm fairly interested in this body, I was holding out for 5D MK III and i want to see how well the ISO high performs on this body as that is my main reason for upgrade. i don't need 9000 AF points as i only use the center point 99.9998% of the time, 3fps is more then enough for me as well.

It is hilarious how so many people are complaining about the "lack" of features, its not lack of features it's you get what you pay for, and canon will not kill the sales of their more high end bodies.