Canon EOS 6D - why no builtin flash?

macroimage wrote in post #15009703
No full frame digital has had a flash so far, however almost all of the film EOS SLRs were full frame and many had flash.

There is always the Speedlite 90EX flash for those who want a very small and low cost flash. It would be adequate for a bit of fill when taking pictures of people in sunlight.

pretty sure the D800 and D600 by nikon have in body flash

TSchrief wrote in post #15010948
Uninformed nonsense. My Elan7NE IS full frame, and it HAS a pop-up flash. Please put brain in gear before engaging mouth (fingers).

Wow my bad, I didn't think i have to explain it with apple and oranges. But ok Just so you understand. None Canon DIGITAL FF have a flash. Now you understand ? Or do i need to say also, ONLY DIGITAL FULL FRAME , NO FILM CAMERAS MADE BY CANON ? Got it now??

It is pitch black. I have 2 x 430 speedlites with me. Mice every where, what do I do? I pop up my 7D flash, set my speedlites to slave, set the intensity to channel a=1/8 and channel b= 1/4 (in camera), hang em on a branch and voila. Too bright? Set the speed differently, in camera. Brilliant. The reason I still use my 7D for some stuff, save using a 10m flash cable and buying a 580ex... which means if I want to upgrade to FF I have to buy a NIKON, cos they seem to be capable of it.

CyberManiaK wrote in post #15011426
Wow my bad, I didn't think i have to explain it with apple and oranges. But ok Just so you understand. None Canon DIGITAL FF have a flash. Now you understand ? Or do i need to say also, ONLY DIGITAL FULL FRAME , NO FILM CAMERAS MADE BY CANON ? Got it now??

I already knew that. What I did not know was what YOU meant. I only had access to what you said.

TSchrief wrote in post #15011022
Does this comment strike anyone else as extremely rude? Had the poster been asking for criticism, fine. He was not. I dearly wish I had some photographs of my mother and my niece. The photographic quality of them would be of no interest to me.

The photo was offered up as an example of using the pop up flash, not for its sentimental value. I have a cardboard box full of Polaroids, their keepsake value doesn't elevate their quality.

For me, a pop-up flash lets you use your DSLR as a point and shoot.

TSchrief wrote in post #15012945
I already knew that. What I did not know was what YOU meant. I only had access to what you said.

I think it is quite clear as we are in the "Canon EOS Digital Cameras" board, and we are discussing DSLRS, and have been for 10 years here. You have much more to go on than just what he posted, you have the environment and previous comments to add to the context. Let's move on, shall we?

Now in relation to the other comments about the crappy onboard flash, there are some very creative ways and aftermarket tools that can turn that onboard flash into something much nicer and softer. If you try those techniques and tools out, you can actually create a very nice smoothly list subject. If you just use the flash as is, sure it is too concentrated and make for a harsh photo.

We used to have an active thread that showed these techniques and how you can get better quality photos with that flash with close subjects.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #15012999
I think it is quite clear as we are in the "Canon EOS Digital Cameras" board, and we are discussing DSLRS, and have been for 10 years here. You have much more to go on than just what he posted, you have the environment and previous comments to add to the context. Let's move on, shall we?

Agreed. My bad from the first reply. Apologies all around.

Unregistered.Coward wrote in post #15012996
The photo was offered up as an example of using the pop up flash, not for its sentimental value. I have a cardboard box full of Polaroid moments, their keepsake value doesn't elevate their quality.

For me, a pop-up flash lets you use your DSLR as a point and shoot.

I offered the photo as an example of a situation that the pop-up flash can be used as a fill light, saving a picture.

Without it, my wife would show as a dark shape.

You may have noticed that the photo was metered for the background and was at ISO 12800. Since I was on a motoring boat, I could not bring the shutter speed down too much, due to the vibration of the boat motor.

As I said, the boat was moving out of its slip and I literally had seconds to set the camera and frame the shot. So I did. Then the moment was gone...

It is not pretending to be art, it is a tourist snapshot that made it. A P&S would not have captured the background, a non-popup camera would not have captured the foreground.

The gentleman that made the initial comment about the bad picture has a 5DIII and Elinchrome Quadra, so he felt entitled to make the comment that with such inferior equipment as mine, this is as bad as can be expected...

Had the boat left earlier, I'd have the same shot in ISO 3200 or 1600 and the quality would have been better (as a matter of fact the full resolution photo IS better).

A non popup camera would be pulling shadows...

Anyway, each one of us places different value on each of the photos we shoot, based on personal criteria. It would be polite not to trash anybody else while projecting our opinions/beliefs... Especially when making absolutist statements...

Did you shoot that image in raw? If so, would you care to share it on wetransfer.com or some other file sharing? I would like to have a stab at it to see if I can help your final result and enhance the memory a bit?

For it's target market, the lack of a pop-up flash is a glaring omission. I love the one in my 7D as it adds to the versatility of the camera for times when I don't have an external flash with me. It has also allowed my to bypass buying the expensive top-end external flashes and buy a more affordable 430 EX II because I can use the built-in flash as a wireless controller.

Yes, no other Canon FF has it, however no other Canon FF is targeted at this market. This was one area where Canon could of vastly improved the appeal of the camera without clipping into the 5D III and it's target market.

Unregistered.Coward wrote in post #15012996
For me, a pop-up flash lets you use your DSLR as a point and shoot.

Many many many people WILL want to use the 6D as a point and shoot for various occasions. This camera is not geared towards the Pro crowd, its semi-pro and you dont have work for Canon to know that the vast majority of sales will actually be to amateurs.... amateurs like me... who dont want to carry their Speedlites everywhere they go and still need a fill flash at times.

TeamSpeed wrote in post #15013285
Did you shoot that image in raw? If so, would you care to share it on wetransfer.com or some other file sharing? I would like to have a stab at it to see if I can help your final result and enhance the memory a bit?

Unfortunately not... I would have loved to see your magic!

However, ISO 12800 is crummy quality, grainy, noisy... but it's better than blank...

Thank you, nevertheless!

Apparently the gps and wifi unit and antennae take up the space where a pop up flash would be on the 6D.

Why do we need to second guess or defend Canon's decision? The fact of the matter is that they did not include a pop-up flash. If that is a requirement to you, then don't get the camera. Complaining about it doesn't change it.

If nobody complains it will never change will it? We complained about too many MPs, canon brought out the 1Dx and kept the 5DIII reasonable (although they did nothing to improve IQ). They even lower MPs on the G series. We complained about small sensors in the Gseries, they gave us the G1X or whatever its called. We complained about AF on the 5D series, so they went bent on the 5DIII.
We want a FF built in flash. Yes we do, they have their uses whatever people say. So we complain, hoping someone will listen.