The real issue with 6D and 5Dm3

Mark1 wrote in post #15010397
its not anywhere at that price.

The real question he is asking is "in 6 months, when the price drops to $2800, is it priced right ?"

It's been around $2800 a couple times recently via Adorama and Beach.

drive_75 wrote in post #15014136
Before the design of a product, company's management will determine what they need and at what price they can sell. They put together a cost analysis of how much in R&D and what the BOM will cost. They then determine what price point they can sell and who are they going to market the product to. Yes I'm sure they look at what Nikon offered but I doubt they will say we need to have the same spec or features. Corners will have to be cut if they feel that they have other features for the targeted customers and if meeting the feature of Nikon will increase the BOM, they likely not add it unless they feel it is very important. Those $$$$ gets thrown in for the company's forcast. It's unlikely they will adjust the price. We don't know if the 6D will outsell Nikon or not. I'm sure Canon have a number of sales in mind prior to the design.

True. There is some room, however, for competitive adjustment.

More to the point, however, the early work needs to recognize the marketspace, the competition, etc. A failure at product launch is, ultimately, an indictment on the entire process.

And that doesn't even consider that the best laid plans rarely survive contact...

drive_75 wrote in post #15014136
Also don't be so quick to judge any product based on spec. I would wait for the actual product to see the performance.

Agreed as well. My point doesn't have anything to do with the actual product, in the end.

New buyers will be looking at the specs and price tag. Salespeople will be quoting them. The specs are, after all, a marketing tool.

Real world performance rarely factors in at the consumer level. It's all about features and price.

From that perspective, and that perspective only, Canon has whiffed.

Yes the 5D3 is an astounding camera and a very worthy upgrade to the 5D2. Yes, those who buy it love it and for good reason. Yes, it represents everything that 5D2 owners wanted in an upgrade.

In the marketplace, however, it will not get as many buyers as it could/should/would have if it had been priced competitively with the Nikon or if it had outclassed the D800 (on paper) to justify the price delta.

1Dx to D4 is an example of how it should be done. The Canon is faster and higher resolution with a broader ISO range. They justified the higher cost.

Erik S. Klein wrote in post #15014224
New buyers will be looking at the specs and price tag. Salespeople will be quoting them. The specs are, after all, a marketing tool.

Real world performance rarely factors in at the consumer level. It's all about features and price.

I don't know that it is a black and white as you imply. the ease of which people can research product reviews from dedicated review sites or online vendors and even write their own personal reviews at online vendors means that those who are not early adopters can easily be relatively well/ill informed.

I see a lot of comparing of one model to another, Canon v. Nikon, notes that Canon made a mistake, the the cameras are overpriced, etc. Most of you here miss the whole point. Canon is not in business of making good cameras or making improvement for the products. Canon is in business of making money for the owners or shareholders (I do not know if Canon is a private or public company). If Canon can sell enough 6D's to make a nice profit, it will stay that way. If a company sees business goes to a competitor, it will have to adapt or it will lose money. Everything else is just hot air.

smythie wrote in post #15014257
I don't know that it is a black and white as you imply. the ease of which people can research product reviews from dedicated review sites or online vendors and even write their own personal reviews at online vendors means that those who are not early adopters can easily be relatively well/ill informed.

True. I don't mean to make it sound black and white, either. There are tons of other factors that go into decisionmaking on a purchase like this. Availability, warrantees, quality of service, ergonomics, family/friend/web-based advice, the lens catalog and so much more.

I'm trying to isolate two aspects from that but I do recognize that there is tons more that goes into it.

I did a pile of research before I bought my first Rebel. In the end the fact that I'd had Canon products before tipped the scales for me...

the real issue is the price! I'm sure Canon will sell tons of these if they price it at $2700 for the 5D3 and $1700 for the 6D.

However, as said by Drive_75:

Canon Inc. most definitely has a sales goal for the camera. If they reach that goal--if they have accurately defined a market segment and created the proper camera for that segment--they will meet their sales numbers and will be happy.

If the score an unexpected bonus (such as the 5D2's unexpected success with video professionals), that's gravy. But notice that Canon's response to the professional video segment was to roll out a couple of new cameras designed specifically for that segment.

aximrocks wrote in post #15014297
the real issue is the price! I'm sure Canon will sell tons of these if they price it at $2700 for the 5D3 and $1700 for the 6D.

Sure, they'd sell a ton. But would the profit at that level reach their goals?

seoul4korea wrote in post #15009119
why did we make a thread for this?

because we can!!!

RDKirk wrote in post #15014508
But notice that Canon's response to the professional video segment was to roll out a couple of new cameras designed specifically for that segment.

At prices that segment is accustomed to

smythie wrote in post #15014552
At prices that segment is accustomed to

Wouldn't you want to do the same if you were a business? I don't think that is shocking at all.

Lbsimon wrote in post #15014258
I see a lot of comparing of one model to another, Canon v. Nikon, notes that Canon made a mistake, the the cameras are overpriced, etc. Most of you here miss the whole point. Canon is not in business of making good cameras or making improvement for the products. Canon is in business of making money for the owners or shareholders (I do not know if Canon is a private or public company). If Canon can sell enough 6D's to make a nice profit, it will stay that way. If a company sees business goes to a competitor, it will have to adapt or it will lose money. Everything else is just hot air.

That's why in my last post I mentioned I think they made a business mistake. IMO they made a miscalculation and will be losing sales to Nikon and furthermore possibly losing long-term market share which is counter to their goal of making money.

SoCalTiger wrote in post #15014576
That's why in my last post I mentioned I think they made a business mistake. IMO they made a miscalculation and will be losing sales to Nikon and furthermore possibly losing long-term market share which is counter to their goal of making money.

We'll see. Right now Canon is the most profitable Camera company. If that changes, so will their strategy. (or it won't an they will decline. Happens to good companies all the time).

tkbslc wrote in post #15014585
We'll see. Right now Canon is the most profitable Camera company. If that changes, so will their strategy. (or it won't an they will decline. Happens to good companies all the time).

Canon is way more than a Camera company though and this could be good or could be bad depending on what your camera needs are. For instance, let's say that Canon has decided to maximize the profits in the camera division and the strategy they choose is to give up market leadership at the top end, where profit margins are low, and put all their efforts into the low end consumer cameras. Canon looks great from a profit standpoint but those seeking top end equipment aren't going to be looking to Canon to supply their needs.

Luckily I don't think Canon has chosen this path but as if others start cutting into Canon's high end sales and they fall from their #1 position, I can easily see them making such a decision.

tkbslc wrote in post #15014570
Wouldn't you want to do the same if you were a business? I don't think that is shocking at all.

I don't think it's shocking that Canon entered at those prices. In fact I think it is sensible business tactics as it will improve the perceived credibility of the products in that market.

What I find shocking is the prices of cinematic gear.