1D mark iv or 5d mark iii for youth sports

up until now I have been taking mostly portraits, but I am starting to get into youth sports. now that it is starting to produce money. I am looking at getting a little better camera right now I am using a 50D. I am looking at either getting a used 1D mark IV or a 5D Mark III. I shoot both Soccer and baseball. some of the games are played at night. the lens I mostly use is a canon 70-200L f/2.8 with a 1.4x converter.

1D more frames per second. I have read the auto focus is better but I would rather hear it form some one that has shot both.
5D better resolution, FF, I'm guessing better ISO but again just what I have read.

main reason for the camera is better at high ISO for the night shooting, and hoping to get a few more supper sharp pictures with a better AF tracking system.

and if anyone can tell me what the cost of refurbishing the shutter on the D1

I would guess that either would do the job quite well and both may actually be a bit of overkill for youth sports (which I shoot a lot of) the most popular size print to sell seems to be the 5x7 with the occasional 8x10. Considering that it seems your goal is to make money the first thing you'll have to look at is how long it will take to make back the cost of your equipment. From a business perspective, your goal should be to spend the least amount of money possible and yet still get the job done. I'm not sure about your market but around here (and it seems to be this way in most places) action photo sales from games is pretty dismal and for most photographers that I know, making 50 bucks from a game would be considered a stellar day of sales. All of that said, my point is that you may want to consider keeping and using what you've got (your set up is more than adequate for producing 8x10 prints, even at high iso's) until you've better established just what kind of sales you can expect. Another option may be to look at used 1D IIn's if you want better AF. They can be had fairly cheap now and they can cover youth sports without breaking a sweat (they were the camera of choice for many pro sports shoots just a short while ago). All of this is assuming that your main goal is to make money.
Photography is my only income and from that, the majority is from youth sports...and believe me, it's not the action shots that make the money, it's the team and individual photos and selling buttons, mugs and keychains to parents.

thanks for your input. we sell more 20x30 posters then anything

If you are making money, use the camera that you think will help you make the most money. If you mainly make money off portraits, get the 5D3. If you manly make money off sports AND feel like you need the motor drive, get the 1D4. For youth sports, the 6FPS may be plenty. I've never shot youth, so I don't really know.

the 6 is relay fast enough even on the base ball when taking pictures of them hitting the ball I get some bat ball contact or close to. I think I am going with the 5D mark iii just for the fact it's not used.

From a sports photographer to a sports photographer ... if you make any significant percentage of your sales from action photos, go with a 1D body, period. The focus speed and AI follow focus are key to getting LOTS of great action shots. The frame rate, of course, is a big bonus.

At-the-plate baseball is pretty cut-and-dry for any camera ... you can pre-focus and time your shot with the pitch, but you'll have a VERY hard time catching slides into base, running and fielding. Football and soccer is all running action, etc that is literally with the 1D body (any generation) is designed for.

Hope this helps.

pbisfun wrote in post #15019585
thanks for your input. we sell more 20x30 posters then anything

If 20x30 sized prints are what you're selling (assuming they are of action photos and they are selling like hotcakes), I think either a 1DIII or IV would be your best bet. That said, I have no experience with the 5D III. If the AF is anything close to the 1 series, I'm sure you won't be disappointed with that choice either.

NickJushchyshyn wrote in post #15021326
From a sports photographer to a sports photographer ... if you make any significant percentage of your sales from action photos, go with a 1D body, period. The focus speed and AI follow focus are key to getting LOTS of great action shots. The frame rate, of course, is a big bonus.

At-the-plate baseball is pretty cut-and-dry for any camera ... you can pre-focus and time your shot with the pitch, but you'll have a VERY hard time catching slides into base, running and fielding. Football and soccer is all running action, etc that is literally with the 1D body (any generation) is designed for.

Hope this helps.

The 5D3 follow focus and speed is excellent.

pbisfun wrote in post #15019757
the 6 is relay fast enough even on the base ball when taking pictures of them hitting the ball I get some bat ball contact or close to. I think I am going with the 5D mark iii just for the fact it's not used.

I just shot an entire season of MLB with the 5D Mark III. It is great for baseball. I use my motor drive more for football and soccer.

pbisfun wrote in post #15017240
main reason for the camera is better at high ISO for the night shooting, and hoping to get a few more supper sharp pictures with a better AF tracking system.

If this is the true reason, the answer is simple. The 5DIII. Although I have not shot with one, the high ISO images I've seen posted blow my 1DIV out of the water.

I just picked up a 5D3 and shot a football game along side my 1D4 this weekend. Here is the breakdown of my business as well for a background on my prospective, YMMV, 30% sports, 30% portraits, 40% weddings.

Long story short i am letting go of a 1DIV to pick up another 5d3. The AF was spot on, if you cannot get the frame with 6fps, you dont deserve to get it and the noise is better. For weddings the improved AF system has been a godsend. I like to have identical bodies when shooting. Full frame is taking a bit to get used to though coming from a 1.3 crop for so long though. With everything considered, a pair of 5D3's will work best for me.

Now, if you were doing JUST sports, and not having to go over iso 5000 or so (man, we are spoiled now...), I would probably say the 1DIV.

If you want to pick up a 1D IV, I am letting one go at a good rate

Thanks guys for all the input. I think I have made my choice. I am really not excited about spending the money. but I think a new camera will help increas the number of shoots that are in focus. my posters are created with three action shoots of each kid. better AF tracking means more money and happer customers in the long run so i think it will be worth it.

pbisfun wrote in post #15032675
I think I have made my choice... better AF tracking means more money and happer customers in the long run so i think it will be worth it.

Just curious which one you chose.

Having both, I don't think you can go wrong with either. I think the 1D4 has the advantage for extra shutter life and gives some extra reach to your lenses which is useful for field sports. But the 5D3 gives you extra pixels to work with, which might come in handy for large posters.

AF on both is great.

I chose the 5D3 for youth sports on Saturday...

1.

I have both and I'm still in the trial phase with the 5D3. I'm thinking that for most of the time I like the 1D4 a little better for these reasons:

1) More reach on field sports
2) AF seems just a hair more reliable, but they are so close I would not weight this much.
3) Built in grip is nice.
4) 10 fps is slightly better

There is one place the 1D4 beats the pants off the 5D3, and that is shooting through fences with the camera tight against a diamond in the chain link. So if you are really interested in shooting baseball and softball then the 1D4 has a serious advantage. My 5D3 gets real funny when looking through fences and will often give up and start racking the focus back and forth. The 1D4 is much less bothered by fences.

One place the 5D3 is better is when you are not focal length restricted and need to blur backgrounds. Bigger sensor = less DOF for the same framing. I find for volleyball the 5D3 helps get rid of the typically distracting backgrounds just a little better than the 1D4 when using a 70-200/2.8.

dwarrenr wrote in post #15022751
If this is the true reason, the answer is simple. The 5DIII. Although I have not shot with one, the high ISO images I've seen posted blow my 1DIV out of the water.

I shoot with both and the high ISO performance of the two are very close - caveat being, based on my copies of the cameras and when shooting RAW. The 5D3 has a better jpeg engine and does shoot cleaner higher ISO JPEGs.

I have both so if it's not too late for me to have my penneth worth.

If you can get the shutter speed you need at ISO 6400 then I would go with the 1DIV if not go with the 5D3.

I went to son no 1s rugby game a few weeks ago. The floodlights were dreadful. I could not get the SS I needed with the 1D4 but could with the 5D3.

Having said that I wouldn't print any of these examples to 20x30, but here are a few all shot with a 300/2.8 and all are cropped.

ISO 12800, SS 1/1000, F/2.8