Lost the bid - Wondering what I did wrong

I was contacted by a local TV station that is hosting debates for the congressional and senate seats in the state. While the press is covering the debate itself, the TV station wanted to hire a photographer to cover all the behind-the-scenes stuff...meet and greet with the candidates, interactions with the press corps, etc...and maybe a little of the debate coverage itself. It was 3 consecutive nights for 4 hours each night, and they wanted a minimum of 100 finished, post-processed pictures "cleaned up to make the candidates look good." So 12 hours of shooting, and I conservatively estimated this to be 4 hours of post-processing time, knowing it would very likely be more than that. They wanted an unlimited usage license for the photos that might be used in a lot of different ways. I thought my bid was pretty reasonable, and I thought I'd be underbidding other commercial photographers in the area as I wanted this job. However, I was told my price was too high, and they found another photographer to do it for less.

So I'm wondering if others here would be willing to say a price range of what they would charge for a job like this so I can see if I was just totally off base or if they were just looking for the cheapest they could get.

It would be at least $3000 from me, but that wouldn't work for many editorial clients.

You have good gear that stretches along many series. I am sure you are not to the game. Charge what you think is fair and dont let cheap customers bother you. There will always be someone who will offer to work for less than you.

there is always someone cheaper than you ( and rarely better)... when they dont care about quality... (and most of the time, they don't.) you will lose it... i lost a nice contract like this too

someone prob offered to do it for free. You can't win against that and you shouldn't compete on pricing.
Even though it bugged you, follow up with a phone call/email/ snail mail, thanking them for considering you and offer your services for future events. This way you will stand out from all the others and if the hired does a sub par job, you will get the next and will be able to charge what you want.

sdipirro wrote in post #15036635
I was contacted by a local TV station that is hosting debates for the congressional and senate seats in the state. While the press is covering the debate itself, the TV station wanted to hire a photographer to cover all the behind-the-scenes stuff...meet and greet with the candidates, interactions with the press corps, etc...and maybe a little of the debate coverage itself.

Check their web page or watch their news program, do they have a print partner it’s very common for TV stations to partner with local newspapers, if so you never had a chance but the person requesting the bid probably didn’t know that.

Now you might say Wayne what the heck are you talking about if they had access to the newspapers photographers then why did they ask me for a bid in the first place, so let me explain you see many TV stations like many large newspapers operate in silos which for the most part are autonomous to each other that is until money has to be spent.

So what happens is the promotions department working with the news department (two silos) decides to have the station “sponsor” the all important candidates’ debate, in addition promotions comes up with the idea of hiring a still guy to collect content for internal use and for the stations web page, bids are requested the low bidder is chosen (maybe you) a package is put together including a budget and it is pushed over to the executive offices (another silo) for approval.

Then a bean counter in the executive notices buried in the budget the bid for a still guy and thinks to himself WTF, he gets on the phone and contacts his counterpart over at their print partner and inquires if they can supply an extra photographer to cover backgrounds the answer of course will be affirmative and the cost will be about $200 - $250 per day or $150 - $175 per half day (depending on the market) for one of their stringers to cover the event and in addition the print partner will do the post editing in house by a staffer and then to add insult to injury (for you) they will script the entire cost for promotion.

The bean counter red-lines you out of the budget and now grinning ear to ear having knocked the proposed budget down by 5% walks the package over to his manager for an approval.

In the old days before the advent of the one-man-crew and contractors you might had a chance of getting your foot in the door but nowadays with budgets slashed to the bone you where dead in the water before you left the dock, but that’s how it works in media been there done that.

Wayne

You didn't list how much you bid.

I still remember that whatever price I quoted to a certain heicopter manufacturer in the west country, my price was undercut by one particular contractor. It was clear that "someone" was getting a quick look at the figures after the bid closing date/time and being allowed to place a late bid. Strictly illegal but impossible to prove.

As the helicopter company is a very large and well known business it surprised me. I ran a couple of very low "test" bids so know for my own satisfaction it was happening. If thats going on you never will win.

sdipirro wrote in post #15036635
I was contacted by a local TV station that is hosting debates for the congressional and senate seats in the state. While the press is covering the debate itself, the TV station wanted to hire a photographer to cover all the behind-the-scenes stuff...meet and greet with the candidates, interactions with the press corps, etc...and maybe a little of the debate coverage itself. It was 3 consecutive nights for 4 hours each night, and they wanted a minimum of 100 finished, post-processed pictures "cleaned up to make the candidates look good." So 12 hours of shooting, and I conservatively estimated this to be 4 hours of post-processing time, knowing it would very likely be more than that. They wanted an unlimited usage license for the photos that might be used in a lot of different ways. I thought my bid was pretty reasonable, and I thought I'd be underbidding other commercial photographers in the area as I wanted this job. However, I was told my price was too high, and they found another photographer to do it for less.

So I'm wondering if others here would be willing to say a price range of what they would charge for a job like this so I can see if I was just totally off base or if they were just looking for the cheapest they could get.

Usually if you bid to low that can be a problem. These type of things all have budgets.

For unlimited usage, 12 hours plus 4 hours post for me it would be at the very least 4K.

Lowner wrote in post #15039320
Strictly illegal but impossible to prove.

For what it is worth in the U.S. that is a common business practice and it is not at all illegal in the private sector.

Wayne

Channel One wrote in post #15039346
For what it is worth in the U.S. that is a common business practice and it is not at all illegal in the private sector.

Wayne

So when a client states in the documents that any quote received after a certain time and date will be excluded, but then conveniently ignores it, that would be perfectly okay under US law?

Strnge wrote in post #15039304
You didn't list how much you bid.

I was also curious about this....

I've lost plenty of bids/proposals (non-photography). I find that to be one of the better learning experiences in business. Hopefully you can find out how high you were and some details about their decision making process. If your contact is a half-way decent person and you play your cards right they will potentially tell you a lot.

sdipirro wrote in post #15036635
and they wanted a minimum of 100 finished, post-processed pictures "cleaned up to make the candidates look good

sdipirro wrote in post #15036635
They wanted an unlimited usage license for the photos that might be used in a lot of different ways.

I don't know what your price was, but if I was asked to supply a price for this job, this is my line of thinking. So just in labor alone, 12hrs shooting and 4hrs pp, 16hrs at a very modest $40/hr puts you at $640. There would also be other expenses to consider, or bump your hourly rate to cover those expenses. But that is not even really the point. Not including any images.

Commercial photography (and I have done some), used to be a combination of "location creative fee" and "usage licensing". To estimate an accurate usage fee, you should have known:

1. What resolution or size the supplied images needed to be?
   
2. Digital or print?
   
3. What media and how the images might be used?("lot of different ways doesn't cover it!)
   
4. Local, regional, national or global audience?
   
5. Duration of images to be used in media?
   
6. Exclusive rights?
   

Lowner wrote in post #15039476
So when a client states in the documents that any quote received after a certain time and date will be excluded, but then conveniently ignores it, that would be perfectly okay under US law?

Unless the RFP involved work that was part of public sector contract then the RFP is a corporate policy not a legal requirement and as such the corporation can modify the RFP as they wish at anytime be that before closing or after.

In fact as such every RFP I have read has had a clause in it stating the RFP may be modified by the corporation at any time without prior notice.

The only exception to this would be where a RFP requires prospective bidders to purchase documents such as blueprints in order to place a bid, in this case if the corporation did not refund those fees back to the non-winning bidders the non-winning bidders might have a case against the corporation should the modification of the terms be after closing.

Once money changes hands the rules change.

Wayne