7D II

The 7D was designed as the APS-C flagship. I think the chances of a FF 7DII are right around zero. With the 7D's current performance, the only way it could happen is if it sat between the 5DIII and 1DX. There's

Canon will add a few more features and jack the price, that's all I'm saying.

BrickR wrote in post #15342406
I don't think Canon would put a FF sensor in a 7dii. They love to compartmentalize their segments. No way they would want the 7dii to cut into 5d3 sales. No way. So they'll make it a poor man's 1dx...afterall, that formula worked when they made the 7d a poor man's 1d4

A FF 7Dii would pretty much be the 5DMkiii. And if you look at the current FF lineup, they pretty much have the whole range covered. The 1Dx for the pro market, the 5DMkiii for the mid-range market and the 6D for the low range market. Where would the 7D fit in? Below the 6D? There is no need unless they totally revamp the 7D concept and go totally stripped down, a 6D without Wifi, without GPS, cut the frame rate, go back to the 9 point AF and shave another couple hundred off of the price.

Na, the 7Dii if it happens will be a crop camera with all the bells and whistles.

gjl711 wrote in post #15342764
A FF 7Dii would pretty much be the 5DMkiii. And if you look at the current FF lineup, they pretty much have the whole range covered. The 1Dx for the pro market, the 5DMkiii for the mid-range market and the 6D for the low range market. Where would the 7D fit in? Below the 6D? There is no need unless they totally revamp the 7D concept and go totally stripped down, a 6D without Wifi, without GPS, cut the frame rate, go back to the 9 point AF and shave another couple hundred off of the price.

Na, the 7Dii if it happens will be a crop camera with all the bells and whistles.

+1

It will be the crop 1DX.

2n10 wrote in post #15342932
+1

It will be the crop 1DX.

Yep, and it'll be priced accordingly.

2n10 wrote in post #15342932
+1

It will be the crop 1DX.

and that's exactly what I'm looking for

rick_reno wrote in post #15343385
Yep, and it'll be priced accordingly.

My thoughts exactly.

Stone 13 wrote in post #15343419
and that's exactly what I'm looking for

Same here.

So I'm in B&h LOOKING for a FF , some guy with a Canon I.D comes over and says In a month the 7DmkII is going FF Yata Yata Yata blah blah blah < ah geez not this Cr*p again ....As I hit myself over the head with the bat....For those not following along ,,pay no mind.. I'm taking a bow thank you

John Sheehy wrote in post #15333256
A bigger sensor, with the same quantum efficiency, not only collects more light with the same f-stop and exposure time, but also can capture more total light in a single exposure. IOW, a FF camera at ISO 100 captures over twice as much total light as an APS-C at ISO 100, with the same exposure. Bringing up pixel size within that context is irrelevant, as the only factors are total quantum efficiency and sensor size.

I dont understand this part, in terms of how it affects the end result/picture.

To me it seems like you're having a conversation about water temperature, and then mentioning that a bigger bucket holds more water. (Which is true, but what's that got to do with how hot the water is?)

If a FF gathers twice as much light, is the image twice as bright? Twice as clear? half the noise? Or what is the benefit of this extra light gathered over a larger area?

(I'm not being facetious, genuine question)

romanv wrote in post #15343830
I dont understand this part, in terms of how it affects the end result/picture.

To me it seems like you're having a conversation about water temperature, and then mentioning that a bigger bucket holds more water. (Which is true, but what's that got to do with how hot the water is?)

If a FF gathers twice as much light, is the image twice as bright? Twice as clear? half the noise? Or what is the benefit of this extra light gathered over a larger area?

(I'm not being facetious, genuine question)

from my limited understanding of sensor tech:

Each larger FF pixel has the ability to collect more light as compared to the smaller pixel of a crop sensor for a given aperture/SS combination.

more light = more photons
more photons = more electrons created which results in a larger available charge that can be collected per pixel by the A/D converter. It results in a higher signal to noise ratio when the image is written. More signal and less noise = better IQ.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong on this

Stone 13 wrote in post #15343922
more light = more photons
more photons = more electrons created which results in a larger available charge that can be collected per pixel by the A/D converter. It results in a higher signal to noise ratio when the image is written. More signal and less noise = better IQ.

This is correct. But the A/D converter is not the only source of noise, there is also random photon noise is nature, which a larger pixel helps reduce. Comparing the 5D2 and 7D the noise difference is about one stop better on the 5D2. However the 5D classic's noise performance is about the same as the 7D, so pixel size isn't everything design matters too.
It's not just about noise though, the pixel density on a crop is much higher. So this means that a lens that appears fully sharp on a FF body might not have enough sharpness on a crop body. That is to say, the resolution of the sensor on a crop is more likely to exceed the resolution of your lens. This means that it's easier to achieve a sharp image on FF.
Another issue is the depth of field, which is smaller on a FF, so that comes in handy if you want lots of bokeh, but isn't necessarily good for some things such as macro.

Stone 13 wrote in post #15343922
from my limited understanding of sensor tech:

Each larger FF pixel has the ability to collect more light as compared to the smaller pixel of a crop sensor for a given aperture/SS combination.

more light = more photons
more photons = more electrons created which results in a larger available charge that can be collected per pixel by the A/D converter. It results in a higher signal to noise ratio when the image is written. More signal and less noise = better IQ.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong on this

Mornnb wrote in post #15344174
This is correct. But the A/D converter is not the only source of noise, there is also random photon noise is nature, which a larger pixel helps reduce. ...

Much of the sensor noise comes in after the photons have done their magic, in all the supporting electronics itself. Noise from this vector is the same irrespective of sensel size. They will be the same for all cameras. So even if you were it 100% eliminate the noise generated at the pixel level you would still have noise from all the other stuff and a FF and crop camera at that point would look the same.

12Rock wrote in post #15343583
So I'm in B&h LOOKING for a FF , some guy with a Canon I.D comes over and says In a month the 7DmkII is going FF Yata Yata Yata blah blah blah < ah geez not this Cr*p again ....As I hit myself over the head with the bat....For those not following along ,,pay no mind.. I'm taking a bow thank you

We feel your pain.

Stsva , Thank you my Brother

Stone 13 wrote in post #15342718
The 7D was designed as the APS-C flagship. I think the chances of a FF 7DII are right around zero. With the 7D's current performance, the only way it could happen is if it sat between the 5DIII and 1DX. There's

Canon will add a few more features and jack the price, that's all I'm saying.

Unless they make a breakthrough in sensor tech, which they might be trying to do, but maybe it's slow going, which would explain the firmware update. If you notice, even the rebels are catching up to the 7D at least in the way of ISO noise control.

hsmoscout wrote in post #15345235
Unless they make a breakthrough in sensor tech, which they might be trying to do, but maybe it's slow going, which would explain the firmware update. If you notice, even the rebels are catching up to the 7D at least in the way of ISO noise control.

It can be argued that the current line of rebels have a very slight IQ edge compared to the 7D, not that it's noticeable by anyone but pixel peepers. Canon has made gradual improvements to the 18MP APS-C sensor and those improvements have been enjoyed by all cameras produced after the 7D. The 18MP sensor in the T4i is probably subtly different than the 18MP sensor in the 7D. My speculation is that the 7D combats this with it's superior supporting electronics as compared to the rebels.

Since the 7D is the APS-C flagship, it makes sense to me that whatever new tech Canon has in store will be in the 7DII when it's released, then the cycle will repeat as more cameras get the new sensor and Canon fine tunes its development.