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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 30 Sep 2012 (Sunday) 09:53
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Yes it's another full frame quest. Help decide.

 
bobbyz
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Oct 01, 2012 08:37 |  #31

1. Shoot earlier in the day when game starts so light is still not that bad.

2. Use highest ISO On your camera.

3. Move down so as to shoot from lower angle. Even if you can't be on sidelines, shoot from behind the fence.

3. Rent a nice lens instead of the camera. If you swing it, rent both. You need something like 5dmk3/1dv4 with 300mm f2.8 IS to get good shots. If too much try to rent 7d instead.


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Kellym7
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Oct 01, 2012 11:40 |  #32

kcbrown wrote in post #15063663 (external link)
There's another slider you should play with: the masking slider in the sharpening section. What that does is cause the program to detect edges and to purposefully avoid sharpening anything that doesn't look like an edge. The slider tells it how "insensitive" to be when detecting edges to sharpen. All the way to the left and it'll sharpen everything (because it'll detect edges everywhere -- essentially, it turns the masking feature off entirely). All the way to the right and it'll sharpen nothing but the most obvious edges (because it won't be sensitive enough to detect any but the most obvious edges). You can actually see the mask if you hold the option key down (on a Mac. It'll be the alt key on a PC) while moving the slider. The idea here is to get it to not sharpen the noise while sharpening everything else. This will have the effect of reducing the apparent noise signature.

Awesome info I will try it!


Canon T3i, Canon EF-S 18-55mm IS II lens, Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS II Lens, Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 EX DG HSM II, Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

  
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hondafans
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Oct 01, 2012 18:29 |  #33

Try This:

https://photography-on-the.net …t=744235&highli​ght=hamstr




  
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TeamSpeed
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Oct 01, 2012 20:27 |  #34

I took a shot of a family member this evening in low light with my 7D. If I want to process just straight OOC camera shots, I have a few settings I put in, I shoot, and then I just resize the image afterwards to an 8x10 300dpi, and then any levels, etc. No additional NR than what happens in the camera, etc. This shows you a very high ISO (12800) in a low light situation, and what exposure means to noise control. Exif is intact. Now when you have action, and your shutter is slower than you want it at whatever you feel your max ISO is, just go up to higher ISOs, and set your EC up 1/3 to 2/3.

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bobbyz
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Oct 01, 2012 21:21 |  #35

Teamspeed, you know big difference between shooting someone sitting still on a chair vs player on the football field more than 50 yrd away even if same lighting. She needs longer reach and better access. Or hire someone who knows what to do.


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Canon 24mm TSE-II, 85mm f1.2 L II, 90mm TSE-II Macro, 300mm f2.8 IS I

  
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TeamSpeed
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Oct 01, 2012 21:30 |  #36

bobbyz wrote in post #15067560 (external link)
Teamspeed, you know big difference between shooting someone sitting still on a chair vs player on the football field more than 50 yrd away even if same lighting. She needs longer reach and better access. Or hire someone who knows what to do.

You still go to a higher ISO, and expose accordingly. If you cannot get the shutter speeds you need to lock down the action, then you have no choice to live with the noise. However, there are still many things in a person's control, like camera settings, post processing, etc. Sure a fast longer lens is nice, but I still think there are more things to improve upon here before changing glass. A 70-200 f2.8 on a 7D should be quite satisfactory for a football game, for example. I agree that you have to get down to the ground level and try to get at least on the track round the football game, but not with the fact that a 300 2.8 IS is needed, nor that you have to shoot earlier in the day (which is hardly ever in the control of the photographer anyways regarding sporting events).

It appears Kelly already has come to this conclusion back on post #29, so I think we just need to wait and see how the result fare!

This is ISO 10000 on the 1D4 with a 70-200 2.8. I would have had more "reach" with the 7D, and would have shot this at ISO 6400 at a slightly slower shutter speed to get the same result.

IMAGE: http://teamspeed.smugmug.com/CHSBand2011-2012/Carroll-Homecoming-2011/i-gX8n4gW/0/XL/BIG5910-XL.jpg

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Kellym7
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Oct 02, 2012 08:46 |  #37

TeamSpeed wrote in post #15067590 (external link)
You still go to a higher ISO, and expose accordingly. If you cannot get the shutter speeds you need to lock down the action, then you have no choice to live with the noise. However, there are still many things in a person's control, like camera settings, post processing, etc. Sure a fast longer lens is nice, but I still think there are more things to improve upon here before changing glass. A 70-200 f2.8 on a 7D should be quite satisfactory for a football game, for example. I agree that you have to get down to the ground level and try to get at least on the track round the football game, but not with the fact that a 300 2.8 IS is needed, nor that you have to shoot earlier in the day (which is hardly ever in the control of the photographer anyways regarding sporting events).

It appears Kelly already has come to this conclusion back on post #29, so I think we just need to wait and see how the result fare!

This is ISO 10000 on the 1D4 with a 70-200 2.8. I would have had more "reach" with the 7D, and would have shot this at ISO 6400 at a slightly slower shutter speed to get the same result.

QUOTED IMAGE

I am shooting with a T3i not a 7D. But will try the suggestions made. The last shots I posted were shot at I believe with ISO set to auto with max of 1600 set. I have struggled so much with noise that I have tried to sacrifice shutter speed for images not as crisp in focus to try and reduce noise. So do you believe if I increase the sensitivity of the sensor I can increase the shutter speed to get good exposure at higher ISO and I will have less noise?
Also can someone tell me how to see exif data on others pictures on the forum?


Canon T3i, Canon EF-S 18-55mm IS II lens, Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS II Lens, Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 EX DG HSM II, Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

  
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TeamSpeed
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Oct 02, 2012 09:19 |  #38

Kellym7 wrote in post #15069222 (external link)
I am shooting with a T3i not a 7D. But will try the suggestions made. The last shots I posted were shot at I believe with ISO set to auto with max of 1600 set. I have struggled so much with noise that I have tried to sacrifice shutter speed for images not as crisp in focus to try and reduce noise. So do you believe if I increase the sensitivity of the sensor I can increase the shutter speed to get good exposure at higher ISO and I will have less noise?
Also can someone tell me how to see exif data on others pictures on the forum?

Doesn't matter, the T2i, T3i, 60D and 7D (and we are still unsure how different or same the T4i is), all share the same basics for sensor tech. The techniques that work on the 7D work on the T3i. In fact, I have found that the techniques that I employed on the 7D work very well on the 1D4 too, they seem to be more similar than different in how to massage the files, IMO.

I would work in Tv and set the shutter you want to have, then keep raising your ISO until your histogram lies in the right side of the graph, without resting directly on the rightmost edge (increases risk of blowing out highlights). Your images will be better than shooting at ISO 1600 and having underexposed images that you have to brighten up.

There are some browser plugins like ExifViewer 2.0 for Firefox that you can install, then when you right click on an image, you would have an option to view Exif.

I would rather have noisier pics than blurry pics, so I shoot high and clean up noise than shoot low and be unable to do anything about all the blur. Purely a subjective call though, I guess. :)


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joeblack2022
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Oct 02, 2012 09:25 |  #39

Kellym7 wrote in post #15069222 (external link)
I am shooting with a T3i not a 7D. But will try the suggestions made. The last shots I posted were shot at I believe with ISO set to auto with max of 1600 set. I have struggled so much with noise that I have tried to sacrifice shutter speed for images not as crisp in focus to try and reduce noise. So do you believe if I increase the sensitivity of the sensor I can increase the shutter speed to get good exposure at higher ISO and I will have less noise?
Also can someone tell me how to see exif data on others pictures on the forum?

The advice for the 7D applies to the T3i as well. Basically forget about what ISO you are shooting at and make sure you expose correctly. As you've already learned with prints noise is less of an issue.

If I may be perfectly honest, noise is the least of your concerns right now. Fix the underexposure issues, then work on the other aspects, composition, focus, timing, etc. before you drive yourself crazy with getting the cleanest images possible.


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Kellym7
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Oct 02, 2012 17:35 as a reply to  @ joeblack2022's post |  #40

my wife says I'm psychotic and she can't deal with me and my camera anymore!:shock: Now that I have convinced myself I don't want to go FF. I now want the 7d. (ok maybe she's right) Better and faster focus and 8fps.:-D Tell me why I don't need the 7D. I am shooting these football games for now but that's because daughters boyfriend his one of the hotshots. All wife cares about are the girls. Not a lot of reason to need the fast focus and 8fps. But the 3 or 4 dance competitions and big dance recital each year the focus could be a big plus. Is it worth spending another $1200. Tell me how else I can convince her I NEED this camera


Canon T3i, Canon EF-S 18-55mm IS II lens, Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS II Lens, Sigma 70-200mm f/2.8 EX DG HSM II, Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

  
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Kellym7
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Oct 02, 2012 18:20 |  #41

I missed this whenever it was posted. Great Info!!


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TeamSpeed
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Oct 02, 2012 20:34 |  #42

Kellym7 wrote in post #15071574 (external link)
my wife says I'm psychotic and she can't deal with me and my camera anymore!:shock: Now that I have convinced myself I don't want to go FF. I now want the 7d. (ok maybe she's right) Better and faster focus and 8fps.:-D Tell me why I don't need the 7D. I am shooting these football games for now but that's because daughters boyfriend his one of the hotshots. All wife cares about are the girls. Not a lot of reason to need the fast focus and 8fps. But the 3 or 4 dance competitions and big dance recital each year the focus could be a big plus. Is it worth spending another $1200. Tell me how else I can convince her I NEED this camera

I would suggest you first get a handle on your exposures and noise reduction/post processing before you get another camera that is going to produce the same results as the Rebel. Once you have a handle on all that, then perhaps your next shortcoming will be the AF and fps of the Rebel, and then you could definitely consider a different body. Just my opinion though. I am selling my 7D for just a grand and would love to sell it to you, but I wouldn't feel right. :D


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hondafans
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Oct 02, 2012 20:54 |  #43

I'd advise you to purchase TeamSpeeds 7D and learn on that body. Its going to take a while to figure out the 7D anyway and might as learn how to make it work on that body if you are seriously considering the change. Just sell off the T3i and the hit won't be that bad. I love my 7D and think it excels at many things.




  
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Oct 02, 2012 21:53 |  #44

Shooting RAW will give you more room to improve the photo in LIghtRoom. These are challenging situations, but you can make it work better - with patience, and a lot of practice in LR.

As for which camera to buy - maybe rent the 5DII for a few days, and try using it the way you normally shoot. If it gives you the advantage/improvement you are seeking, then it is the right tool for you. I feel that my 5DII files clean up easily in LR 4.1. You might find the same. And always use your fastest lens if you can :)



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kcbrown
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Oct 02, 2012 23:31 |  #45

TeamSpeed wrote in post #15072263 (external link)
I would suggest you first get a handle on your exposures and noise reduction/post processing before you get another camera that is going to produce the same results as the Rebel. Once you have a handle on all that, then perhaps your next shortcoming will be the AF and fps of the Rebel, and then you could definitely consider a different body.

This is a reasonable option. The postprocessing techniques you apply to your T3i will be directly applicable to the 7D, so it's not like you'll be losing anything by holding off. I don't think the 7D is going to go up in price over time, either, so you'll be saving a bit of money in the long run. That's especially true if the 7D's successor comes out and isn't a flop. However, the T3i may depreciate faster than the 7D, so the price gap between the two might actually widen.

Then again, I regard the 7D as one of those cameras that you can keep for a very long time because it compromises on so little and is so very good at pretty much everything you throw at it, once you figure out how to expose and postprocess its images properly.

Teamspeed's offer of a 7D for $1k is quite good. I expect you can be sure he's treated his camera properly, and you'll become one of the many people who have purchased a 7D from him. :lol:


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