Primes - are they worth it?

vspector wrote in post #15081129
I've never seem worse AF than on the nifty fifty, i'm sure lurkers would agree. As to the iq, you can easily tell from the sample photo pages which lens is better...

You're missing the point. Instead of arguing in defense of your lens,try to understand that there's much, much more to a lens' performance than IQ...

Paolo.Leviste wrote in post #15081405
Same sensor, vastly different AF.

You have it nailed on the head. My rebel paled terribly in comparison to both of my 1d series and 7d in delivering consistently sharp in focus photos. In the outer focus points especially I could never depend on the best results from the rebel line.

With that being said, upgrade the camera and the OP may find a new appreciation to what primes have to offer.

I agree with OP regarding sharpness/bokeh comparison between the Tamron vs the nifty. Nifty does produce terrible bokeh end of story. But that's not the point....

Nifty is a cheap plastic lens with an aperture that is faster than the fastest zoom. It's a taste of shallow dof for beginners.

And that's what prime is in general - it has a large aperture that no zoom can match.

Sometimes it isn't always about sharpness. Sure a fast prime wide open may be a little bit soft, but the blur/isolation effects you get from it is something a zoom can never ever match. So it all comes down to your application, whether it's for low light use or creativity is up to the photographer.

Most people have a combination of zoom and prime for different use/situation. I don't understand why OP is so fixated on finding a single prime that can replace the Tamron.....different horses for different courses. No one is stopping you to own both.

Just my 2c.

I love all my primes. Weddings with a 35 on one body and an 85 on another is perfect. 85L is just sick.

That said the 70-200 MKII is off the hook.

ZachOly wrote in post #15066277
Primes give me a "look" that no zoom can reproduce. That's all I care about.

took the words out of my mouth.

The 'look' of a prime is essentially about shallow DOF, at f8.0 a lot of people will have difficulty telling a decent zoom and a prime at the majority of fl's.

It really depends on what you are shooting. If you're doing a portrait session and have the time, a prime "can" be a good choice in certain conditions (low light etc). But the current 70-200 with the IS is so sharp and with the IS, very easy to shoot super sharp without a monopod. Since the primes don't have IS, I found no advantage to the 85mm f1.2. On the other hand, when shooting an event, and lots of groups etc, the 16-35L f2.8 II and the 24-70L f2.8 II cover every situation, and at f2.8 are as sharp as any prime, and you don't shoot groups at f1.4 or f2.

In my opinion vspector is as someone else noted - looking for help, an answer to the question in his mind, someone who may be at a different level of understanding regarding photography equipment (no offense) than some who have replied...

So in an attempt to bring this back on topic - to be honest, I'm not sure that you're going to see the significant improvement in primes at that price point that you're looking for, so if that is your upper budget then it might be wise for you to stay where you are as this combination is obviously working for you.

Above your current budget you might find the more significant improvements that you're looking for in a prime.

Primes are so well thought of my many Pros and enthusiasts alike due to facts like the manufacturer has only one focal length to work on and thus perfection or close to can be more easily attained in comparison with a zoom where they have a more complex task of making it good throughout the whole range of the zoom. Also larger apertures can be attained with primes, useful in low light when used correctly with a good understanding of DOF and subject distance or simply for creativity. You may have heard it said that they force creativity, this is due to the fact that they make you think more about your composition and angles in order to get the shot as opposed to zooms which tend to allow you to stand in one position and simply zoom with the lens - in my experience primes make me walk around the subject more looking for those angles and that pleasing frame, yes you could do the same with a zoom but something about a prime makes you think and move that little bit more. AF speed is another consideration but that might also be a product of more expensive lenses in general. Contrast and tonal quality is also a consideration, yes you can achieve some of these qualities in post production but it's much more satisfying to me when I can produce such rich images straight from the camera with little PP being required. These may or may not be enough to entice you away from your current set up and there may be other factors that I haven't mentioned but only you can make that decision based on the information you intake and your own experience by simply going to a camera store for example with your own camera and testing these lenses.

In relation to the 7D v your T2i, as already mentioned there is much more than the sensor to consider when comparing cameras, otherwise the price would surely be the same, things like the AF System, 100% viewfinder and camera size to name a few, attributes which more easily aid you in getting that shot - as the sensor and it's output are but the final stage of the process to you taking a photo, your ability to take that shot and the things that happen around that are just as important. The same principle applies to lenses in relation to IQ. Primes have their place in certain scenarios & personal styles and Zooms may be more advantageous in others, your job is to work out which best fits you and your photographic style in particular scenarios.

Hope that helps somewhat.

Jermainek wrote in post #15093443
In my opinion vspector is as someone else noted - looking for help, an answer to the question in his mind, someone who may be at a different level of understanding regarding photography equipment (no offense) than some who have replied...

So in an attempt to bring this back on topic - to be honest, I'm not sure that you're going to see the significant improvement in primes at that price point that you're looking for, so if that is your upper budget then it might be wise for you to stay where you are as this combination is obviously working for you.

Above your current budget you might find the more significant improvements that you're looking for in a prime.

Primes are so well thought of my many Pros and enthusiasts alike due to facts like the manufacturer has only one focal length to work on and thus perfection or close to can be more easily attained in comparison with a zoom where they have a more complex task of making it good throughout the whole range of the zoom. Also larger apertures can be attained with primes, useful in low light when used correctly with a good understanding of DOF and subject distance or simply for creativity. You may have heard it said that they force creativity, this is due to the fact that they make you think more about your composition and angles in order to get the shot as opposed to zooms which tend to allow you to stand in one position and simply zoom with the lens - in my experience primes make me walk around the subject more looking for those angles and that pleasing frame, yes you could do the same with a zoom but something about a prime makes you think and move that little bit more. AF speed is another consideration but that might also be a product of more expensive lenses in general. Contrast and tonal quality is also a consideration, yes you can achieve some of these qualities in post production but it's much more satisfying to me when I can produce such rich images straight from the camera with little PP being required. These may or may not be enough to entice you away from your current set up and there may be other factors that I haven't mentioned but only you can make that decision based on the information you intake and your own experience by simply going to a camera store for example with your own camera and testing these lenses.

In relation to the 7D v your T2i, as already mentioned there is much more than the sensor to consider when comparing cameras, otherwise the price would surely be the same, things like the AF System, 100% viewfinder and camera size to name a few, attributes which more easily aid you in getting that shot - as the sensor and it's output are but the final stage of the process to you taking a photo, your ability to take that shot and the things that happen around that are just as important. The same principle applies to lenses in relation to IQ. Primes have their place in certain scenarios & personal styles and Zooms may be more advantageous in others, your job is to work out which best fits you and your photographic style in particular scenarios.

Hope that helps somewhat.

so white price range are we talking about? which lenses? i would prefer to wait and save up for a very good lens then get something mediocre now. I'm hoping the 85 1.8 won't be mediocre, from the sample pages it looks very appealing.
i think i'd also wait longer to get the 5D2 than upgrade to a 7d now..

vspector wrote in post #15094368
so white price range are we talking about? which lenses? i would prefer to wait and save up for a very good lens then get something mediocre now. I'm hoping the 85 1.8 won't be mediocre, from the sample pages it looks very appealing.
i think i'd also wait longer to get the 5D2 than upgrade to a 7d now..

being a crop user, you are very limited in usuable primes. go 5D2, the change will be drastic compared to the 7d which is not nearly noticeable. The 85 is good on a crop, but FL hard to use, while on a 5D, it's *OH WOW*

Charlie wrote in post #15094435
being a crop user, you are very limited in usuable primes. go 5D2, the change will be drastic compared to the 7d which is not nearly noticeable. The 85 is good on a crop, but FL hard to use, while on a 5D, it's *OH WOW*

thanks thats great advice.
For now i decided to upgrade my lighting equipment a bit (i mostly shoot indoors) so we will have to wait for the 5dII upgrade.. but i guess i'll get there eventually

Charlie wrote in post #15094435
being a crop user, you are very limited in usuable primes. go 5D2, the change will be drastic compared to the 7d which is not nearly noticeable. The 85 is good on a crop, but FL hard to use, while on a 5D, it's *OH WOW*

It all depends on what you shoot. Personally, I found the 85mm focal length more useful on a crop body than on full frame, but I used it more for sports, concerts, and other events where I needed the reach. My 85 f/1.8 has not been used since I bought a 5D3, but I have found several uses for the 135L I bought with the 5D3.

vspector wrote in post #15094368
so white price range are we talking about? which lenses? i would prefer to wait and save up for a very good lens then get something mediocre now. I'm hoping the 85 1.8 won't be mediocre, from the sample pages it looks very appealing.
i think i'd also wait longer to get the 5D2 than upgrade to a 7d now..

I not sure if anyone has asked you yet, but what type of photography do you enjoy? Reading between the lines I will guess People, shots of your family etc... But my answer to your question would be different depending on what you shoot, so say you enjoyed photographing bugs I'd be recommending the 100mm macro lens to you - but lets go with people... You've expressed previously that you found the 50 to be too narrow but you also seem to be very keen on the 85 1.8 which would give you a narrower Field Of View again, so I reccommend you have a think about that as to which you'd prefer because depending on what you intend to use it for, as others have mentioned, it might be a bit too long. But it was a good lens, the one I played with had a slight green tint to the images however when compared back to back with the 70-200 (if my memory serves me correctly as to which lens I was comparing it to that day), the colours being more true from the latter. It seems simple, but put your Tamron lens on each major focal length I.e. 24, 28, 35, 50 and see which one best fits your style by taking a few photos at each, also go through your archived photos and see which focal length has been most popular over the last few months. I've only used the 50 1.4 of those within your price range and it was ok but like you I just didn't find a need for it and have never used a Tamron lens so unfortunately can't compare, going up into the L series I have the 24 & 35 and think that they are brilliant for all the reasons already mentioned! But I do suggest doing the above tests, then you'll have more of an idea as to the focal range you are most comfortable with and subsequently choosing one to fit your particular needs wont be such a lottery.

Like you I'd rather save and buy the best I can afford than buy a mediocre lens only to have to sell it when I can finally afford the better version.

Charlie wrote in post #15094435
being a crop user, you are very limited in usuable primes. go 5D2, the change will be drastic compared to the 7d which is not nearly noticeable. The 85 is good on a crop, but FL hard to use, while on a 5D, it's *OH WOW*

What format a dslr in no way limits which primes you can use. They are all ef mount so in the physical/mechanical sense they will all work on all bodies. Nor will there be a drastic change, about 1 stop in the dof which when used properly by an experienced photographer will be virtually impossible to discern which body took the photo. And I will repeat again that the prime is equally capable of producing the "OH WOW" factor on either body if you know how to use it properly.

I have a sense the OP is not quite ready to deal with the learning curve and issues that primes can force the photographer to deal with to get those shots that produce the "OH WOW" moment that everyone pines for. No disrespect intended to the OP but primes do force the user to think more about the shot before and during than a zoom. It's just the nature of the beast.

When it comes to portraits, I only use primes and I love them. For sports and landscapes, I use zoom lenses.

Each have a purpose.

Bryan