Quick question: outdoor group portrait with 2 flashes - umbrellas or bare flashes?

As above basically. I have a group of 12-15 people I want to light, and I have 2 flashes (GN36) and some remote triggers and a couple of 33" umbrellas. I know the flashes are losing some power when fired through the umbrellas and I'm worried I might encounter and overlap with the fall off from each flash.

Any tips on how to light this?

Put them one on each side, very close to on camera axis.

Group the flash units together and a couple feet above the camera. I've proven time and time again that this is the best way to avoid nasty shadows in large group photos.

In addition - it's a good idea to get the camera above the height of the group. I usually work atop a sturdy 6-foot or 8-foot stepladder if I can't find another way to get the camera up. My flash units are on 13-foot stands so I can get them above the camera even when the camera is 9 feet above the floor.

I believe the best way to do this is to have the camera-right flash directed towards the left side of the group, and the camera-left flash directed towards the right side of the group (kind of a criss-cross formation). This should help with not having hot spots in the group.

Using the umbrellas sounds like a good solution, but as you mentioned it does really depend on whether you will be dealing with strong overhead sunlight or not. Using those umbrella's may very well knock out that extra stop you need for them to be effective.

Though if it's later in the day, and you can position it so that the sun is behind them, then it sounds like the speedlights could be more effective.

Keep in mind, speedlights are basically fill light at best. You need studio type strobes to have any real power.

.02

Thanks for the help guys I really appreciate it

I think this will be taking place around 7 in the evening, so strong sunlight definitely won't be a problem.

I assume that for my flash exposure calculations I should just half the power ratio seeing as I'm doubling up on the number of flash units, ie. if I work it out that I need to be using 1/2 power I should adjust it to 1/4 (2 x 1/4 = 1/2)?

Sounds about right. Btw - love Londonderry, one of the few areas of NI that have some real character!

symbolphoto wrote in post #15079615
Sounds about right. Btw - love Londonderry, one of the few areas of NI that have some real character!

I'm guessing there's an Irish/American connection if you've been to Londonderry? I know there's a big Irish/American community in Boston and some friends have been over there, every one of them rates the city highly

keith30d wrote in post #15078297
I know the flashes are losing some power when fired through the umbrellas.....

DO NOT use shoot-through umbrellas. You lose a LOT of the light due the fact that it bounces back away from the subject before getting through the umbrella. For this sort of work, use umbrellas that will bounce all of the light from the flash toward the subject.

I only have shoot through umbrellas at the minute, I'm pretty new to working with flash

keith30d wrote in post #15080247
I only have shoot through umbrellas at the minute, I'm pretty new to working with flash

Then use the flash units without the umbrellas. Get them mounted a few inches apart and pointed slightly away from each other. The idea is to have the two flashes paint a wider band of light than one flash alone would.

Mount the pair of flash units a couple of feet above the camera for the shot.

Using this scheme, you'll have the best power to work with and you'll minimize any objectionable shadows.

When I'm shooting large groups (up to 75 people at times), I often use six studio flash units with large umbrellas (mostly 60"). All the flash units are clustered in a long group and the center of the group is located above the camera. I'm usually able to work at f/11 to f/16 and get a very acceptable depth of field that way.

Skip, from someone else used to lighting on location with "studio" units: excellent advice and lighting configuration for a group. Heavy but good!

To the OP: get a back cover of silver, which can sometimes be purchased after-the-fact for your umbrella size. Or order a big 60-incher with such a cover, as they are extremely inexpensive. Put both lights in the one umbrella center, very high so shadows of heads go down at a steep enough angle to avoid the face and neck of others behind them... If outdoors bring sandbags for the stands.

Curve your group so there is less of a distance difference to the flash head. Avoid a very wide angle lens! Avoid rows if the client will accept this style.

jonathan7007

I want to update this to chart my progress and ask for some opinions from people who know more about this than I do.

I shot the group on Saturday and ended up using the umbrellas in front of the flashes, located about 5 meters from the group and about 1.5 meters either side of camera above my head height-so 6 ft or so.

Exif is: ISO 800, f/6.3, 1/100.

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …thrrutherford/8​064570572/

keith30d wrote in post #15091743
I want to update this to chart my progress and ask for some opinions from people who know more about this than I do.

I shot the group on Saturday and ended up using the umbrellas in front of the flashes, located about 5 meters from the group and about 1.5 meters either side of camera above my head height-so 6 ft or so.

Exif is: ISO 800, f/6.3, 1/100.

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …thrrutherford/8​064570572/
1000px 061012_8636 by keith_r_rutherford, on Flickr

I would have prefered a higher shutter speed but the light was fading really fast and i wanted to retain detail in the background, and i ended up calculating the flash exposures using a combination of an android app and a tape measure which now lives in my bag.

Opinions on how I've done would be appreciated as I can attempt to build upon this in the future, but OCF will be something I'll be coming back to a lot in the future.

Notice the shadows on the blue shirt in the back row. Had you grouped the two umbrellas together side by side and located the pair a couple of feet above the camera, those shadows (from two people's heads between the flash and the shirt) would not have been there. The shadows from individuals would be narrower than their own heads and located behind and below their heads.

There are many more shadows within the group that would have been reduced or eliminated, but the ones on the blue shirt were easiest to point out.

Thanks Skip, this is the sort of feedback I was hoping to get. Are the two flashes coming from two sides causing more shadows from there locations relative to the subjects?