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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 05 Oct 2012 (Friday) 12:00
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Is it worth it? (Sell 600D and get a 5DC)

 
Hogloff
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Oct 06, 2012 10:12 |  #16
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snake0ape wrote in post #15086831 (external link)
The 600d or any crop camera takes awesome pictures. A FF camera only main benefit is better lower noise at high Iso and thin dof shots. If you view random pictures in this forum, 95% of them, most people cant tell if they are taken on crop or FF.
Best way to improve picture quality is to shot in raw and use post production. Best way to improve qaulity of pictures is getting better by taking some more pictures.

I don't agree with your assessment. If the only place your images end up on is the web...then yeh there will be very little difference between crops and FF cameras. But if you make prints...then there will be a large difference, at least from my own testing and expereience using a 7d and 5d2. Prints unto say 11x14 are very hard to see the differences...but anything larger shows up in much better fine details and tonal qualities in the FF photos.

If you shoot just for the web, today's advanced P&S like the new Sony is all you really need.




  
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bigVinnie
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Oct 06, 2012 10:20 |  #17

Lots of good advice, but the real question is what are you taking pictures of? That will determine your needs the most.

As for the 5d being old tech. I actually prefer that it is a simpler camera and built like a tank. You can forget about chimping. Kinda useless on a 5d. Also not much good for fast moving dogs and kids.

Slower moving subjects you can't get much better for the price.


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Moin
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Oct 06, 2012 13:13 |  #18

bigVinnie wrote in post #15086930 (external link)
Lots of good advice, but the real question is what are you taking pictures of? That will determine your needs the most.

As for the 5d being old tech. I actually prefer that it is a simpler camera and built like a tank. You can forget about chimping. Kinda useless on a 5d. Also not much good for fast moving dogs and kids.

Slower moving subjects you can't get much better for the price.

Portraits mostly & yeah kids!

Looks like I should hold the purchase & save for 5D2, will get it in a year, hopefully :(


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Hogloff
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Oct 06, 2012 14:12 |  #19
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Moin wrote in post #15087467 (external link)
Portraits mostly & yeah kids!

Looks like I should hold the purchase & save for 5D2, will get it in a year, hopefully :(

The 5d2 will not be any better for moving things compared to the 5d. Personally, unless you want tp print larger than 11x14, I would buy the 5d for $600 and spend the rest on lenses.




  
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jwhittaker
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Oct 08, 2012 13:29 |  #20

I haven't moved up from my 600d to 5d (yet).
Here's why:-

1) It has the pop up flash which triggers my speedlite, so I can take much better portraits for off camera flash.
Yes I can do the same with 5D, but no pop up flash, so means buying a transmitter or another speedlight - more weight and stuff to lug around.
(I wish the 5d had a pop up flash).
2) The articulating screen is very handy for me. I shoot video on tripod and it is really ideal to angle the screen rather than having to be on bended knees when videoing.
3) The picture quality is superb. With a good lens, I haven't done the maths, but I think if you blew up a photo on a 5D to match the field of view of the crop screen, the crop would end up with more pixels per inch. I do quite a lot of 200mm photo and would miss the extra reach.
4) I have the 15-85 IS lens, which is fantastic for videoing, the stabilisation really makes a difference, plus the image quality is great.

So, it seems to me, I will be sacrificing a few things I like, and for much more money. Surely I should get at least what I had plus more if I'm paying more, not losing features.
But the stigma of 'crop' sensor never goes away deep in my mind. But I think I will hold out for another couple of years, see what comes out next. I want a FF with a pop up flash and articulating screen then I'd be happy.


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vspector
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Oct 08, 2012 13:45 |  #21

i too have thought about this question...
but to the people who enjoy the "extra reach" of the crop - correct me if i'm wrong - but doesn't the crop just 'crop' out part of the image? so just take your FF photo and crop it a bit to get your "reach"


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jwhittaker
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Oct 08, 2012 13:58 |  #22

yes but it is an 18 mega pixels on the crop sensor. So to get the same field of view on full frame you would crop out a lot of pixels, and would surely end up with a lot less than 18 mega pixels left over, so crop has better quality for same field of view. (Assuming good light that is).


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vspector
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Oct 08, 2012 14:30 |  #23

not sure if 18 mega pixels is necessary. 16 will be just fine.
many professionals use less than 16MP cameras that provide fantastic pictures even blown up. I'd say quality isn't always about the megapixels.


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jwhittaker
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Oct 08, 2012 16:03 |  #24

One more thing for me is the greater depth of field of smaller sensor, which I find useful for indoor movie shooting, I can go larger aperture and have greater depth of field. It's hard trying to alter focus mid shot so more depth the better.


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Hogloff
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Oct 08, 2012 16:10 |  #25
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jwhittaker wrote in post #15095514 (external link)
One more thing for me is the greater depth of field of smaller sensor, which I find useful for indoor movie shooting, I can go larger aperture and have greater depth of field. It's hard trying to alter focus mid shot so more depth the better.

I see where you are going, but it is precisely this small depth of field with the 5d2 that somewhat revolutionized digital movies. A standard camcorder can give you thst large depth of field.




  
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igora90
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Oct 08, 2012 16:16 |  #26

I love my 5Dc, only thing I'm not happy with it is the af. I'll keep this thing as long as it works and then buy the 5d III, otherwise this will do just fine. Before I got it, I was really concerned about the lack of LV, small screen and old tech but I've noticed now that I really don't need those when I'm actually taking photos. Because in the end, the quality of the final image matters and that is where my 5Dc never disappoints :)


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Hogloff
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Oct 08, 2012 16:50 |  #27
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igora90 wrote in post #15095562 (external link)
I love my 5Dc, only thing I'm not happy with it is the af. I'll keep this thing as long as it works and then buy the 5d III, otherwise this will do just fine. Before I got it, I was really concerned about the lack of LV, small screen and old tech but I've noticed now that I really don't need those when I'm actually taking photos. Because in the end, the quality of the final image matters and that is where my 5Dc never disappoints :)

Yeh, ain't it funny these days that the end result, the photos seem to be overlooked. We get more excited about peripheral tech things and less so about why we really press the shutter.

Under ISO 1600, the 5Dc images are hard to beat, even with $8,000 cameras.




  
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MakisM1
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Oct 08, 2012 17:13 |  #28

vspector wrote in post #15094948 (external link)
i too have thought about this question...
but to the people who enjoy the "extra reach" of the crop - correct me if i'm wrong - but doesn't the crop just 'crop' out part of the image? so just take your FF photo and crop it a bit to get your "reach"

We are not talking about a little loss, we are talking about a lot...

If you take a picture with a 50 mm on a 60D, you can take the same picture with the 5D and crop it.

The 60D photo will be 18 Mp, the cropped 5D photo will be 5 Mp (12.8 Mp/(1.6*1.6)). This is the more pixels on target issue.

You can get a photo with the same field of view with the 5D, it will have to be an 80 mm lens (ok the 85 is close enough). Unfortunately, as you get to longer and longer focal lengths, the 'equivalent' lens for the 5D becomes VERY expensive (for instance the equivalent to a 300mm on the 60D would be a 500mm)

Of course, you can take this argument the other way as well. If you can crop a FF photo to get to the same photo (albeit with fewer pixels), unfortunately, you CANNOT add area and pixels to get to the same FOV with a 60D or any other crop. The pixels just ain't there...

You can use a wider lens to get the same field of view, but you change the perspective. My wife hated portraits done at 30 mm with the 60D, although this lens is 'normal'. Well, it isn't. The distortion on the facial characteristics (nose, chin) can be very unflattering...

You choose what you want to do...


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Wilt
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Oct 08, 2012 17:56 |  #29

vspector wrote in post #15094948 (external link)
i too have thought about this question...
but to the people who enjoy the "extra reach" of the crop - correct me if i'm wrong - but doesn't the crop just 'crop' out part of the image? so just take your FF photo and crop it a bit to get your "reach"


...the 5Dc has 122 pixels/mm, so a 14.9x22.3mm crop of the original image is only going to yield 1818x2721 pixels. The 'reach' advantage is due to more densely packed pixels per same unit area.

MkisM1 wrote:
You can use a wider lens to get the same field of view, but you change the perspective. My wife hated portraits done at 30 mm with the 60D, although this lens is 'normal'. Well, it isn't. The distortion on the facial characteristics (nose, chin) can be very unflattering...

A 50mm on APS-C and an 80mm on FF both at the identical camera position will yield IDENTICAL perspective, since perspective (defined as the spatial relationship between the subject and the surrounding things) is unaltered by lens alone. Look at photos 4,5, and 6 of this post, to prove it to yourself.
https://photography-on-the.net …php?p=7667313&p​ostcount=4


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MakisM1
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Oct 08, 2012 18:21 |  #30

Wilt wrote in post #15095960 (external link)
A 50mm on APS-C and an 80mm on FF both at the identical camera position will yield IDENTICAL perspective, since perspective (defined as the spatial relationship between the subject and the surrounding things) is unaltered by lens alone. Look at photos 4,5, and 6 of this post, to prove it to yourself.
https://photography-on-the.net …php?p=7667313&p​ostcount=4

Put the camera on a tripod near you, say 2-3 ft, and take a shot at 30mm and a shot at 50, 60 whatever. Crop them both for a portrait from ear to ear (same FOV, same distance, different focal lengths...) Do you see any perspective distortion in the wide angle? Once you are far enough, you don't see the perspective distortion (as in the photos you linked).


Gerry
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