RAW vs. JPEG Preview - Please Explain

I've had several PM conversations with various members when the topic comes up in threads - but I haven't grasped a full understanding of what is happening.

I have come to accept that my RAW image, is not going to match my JPEG preview (I shoot RAW only) due to picture style camera settings, what I can't understand is the lack of consistency I have of the way the images change when I import them into Lightroom 3.6. While several people have suggested creating an import preset that matches the camera picture style, I don't have a consistent variation across the images.

My camera setting is user defined from Neutral, with contrast, saturation and sharpening turned down all the way.

Many images often require +1 stop exposure or even 1.5, as well as fill adjustments some images require NO adjustments. Most imports result in a "flattening" of the image as well as a drop in exposure. I'm not a processing expert and don't know the terminology, but the difference in exposure that I had tried to create between a subject and a background during the shot, seem to get closer together resulting in the flattening of the image - this phenomenon has created the most trouble for me, as I am unsure what/how to adjust to get the image back the way I originally had intended, and how it looked on the screen. The fact that it changes so much is leading me to believe there is something wrong with my shooting technique, but when the preview image turns out the way I intended, metered, and adjusted the camera, I felt like I did everything right.

Another thing I don't understand (at least the relevance), is it appears images produced with ISO 100 need much more adjustment than images taken with say ISO400. Likewise, if an image is exposed with the subject illuminated by flash, it is often very close to the preview image. On the flipside - I took several images in the same location, with the same camera settings, and the change in the image upon import varied based on the composition and the amount of black/white or light/dark in the image. I've noticed this with ETTL which I understand will change based on metering mode and the scene, but I've also noticed this with Manual flash settings as well.

What I'm looking for is a basic understanding of what is happening inside the camera during this process, and how I can adjust my shooting or metering techniques to minimize this effect. It really slows my post processing down, as I almost have to adjust each image individually, and I've even resorted to the "auto tone" button on many occasions just to speed things up. Something about that just seems wrong on so many levels to me after I put so much into creating the image I want....

I'm not sure I completely understand your description, but I'll make a guess.

There are several factors that would make the jpeg preview you see on your camera LCD not match the result you get during initial raw conversion. One of those factors is the brightness of your camera LCD vs. the brightness of your computer monitor. If you have the brightness of your camera LCD cranked way up and the brightness of your computer monitor calibrated to a reasonable level (90 to 110 CD2), then your initial raw conversion will look darker than the camera LCD.

So, when shooting, if you are judging exposure simply be the visual appearance on the camera LCD, most of your shots will come out underexposed. On a camera with the LCD set to high brightness, you are likely to judge scenes with high dynamic range differently than scenes with low dynamic range. That might explain your inconsistency. You are likely to judge a high dynamic range scene as "too bright" and thus lower exposure. You are likely to judge a low dynamic range scene as too dark and thus raise exposure.

The way around this problem is to use the in-camera histogram to judge exposure, not the visual appearance of the image on the camera LCD. You don't mention histograms at all in your message, so I'm not sure if you are doing this.

You say you have the camera set to neutral style, with contrast, sat, and sharpening turned down. That is good, and a common recommendation to make the in-camera histogram match the true raw histogram as close as possible. But another factor that significantly effects the histogram is white balance. If the in-camera (jpeg) white balance is "X" and you change it to "Y' in raw conversion, a significant change in exposure might result. Different white balances can move the histogram of a scene from 1 to 1.5 stops.

Personally, I shoot with the camera LCD set to max brightness, simply so I can see the in-camera histogram better. Especially when shooting in bright sun while wearing sun glasses. That takes some discipline to rely on the histogram and ignore the image itself. It's tempting to look at the overly bright image and lower exposure.

Lots of other factors come into play during raw conversion. The most dominant is your camera profile. Don't know what you have set as the initial default profile in LR 3.6, but if you cycle through them all you will see significant movement in the histogram.

It would be a good exercise for you to set your camera to capture both raw and jpeg and then shoot a bunch of test scenes. Then bring matched pairs into LR and look at their histograms. The histograms won't lie to you. The camera LCD and your computer monitor (if not calibrated) might be lying to you.

Even on the monitor, as I import you can watch the images change from what I wanted to flat and dark. I need to experiment more with the camera profiles and see if I can get some improvement.

Something to consider that has come up with some discussions is the fact that newer cameras have two settings that can affect your exposure and non-Canon Raw processors, the Highlight Tone Priority (HTP) setting and the Auto Lighting Optimizer (ALO) setting. These functions can be useful especially if you are shooting jpegs but can throw off a Raw converter.

For someone getting started with Raw shooting, or who is having issues with Raw such as what you're dealing with, I highly recommend using the Canon Raw processing software Digital Photo Professional (DPP) to examine/evaluate your photos and the issues you are having. DPP applies the in-camera settings to your Raw preview, and you can use it as a "reference" to what you're seeing in Lightroom. Lightroom does have "Camera Calibration Profiles" that are designed to "imitate" the Canon profiles, although older versions of LR will differ to some degree. But, I'd play with DPP and then work with LR to get things to your taste.

Tony,
I believe I have both of those options turned off. I shoot a 60D. I will take a look at dpp again, but I think the same thing was happening there. Let me check...

Are you using a dedicated light meter? If so you are going to want to calibrate that to your camera. Turning of the auto brightness setting on the LCD helps out too.

On a side note, a RAW picture style would be a nice option. I wonder why this hasn't been implemented.

Redcrown wrote in post #15094446
It would be a good exercise for you to set your camera to capture both raw and jpeg and then shoot a bunch of test scenes. Then bring matched pairs into LR and look at their histograms. The histograms won't lie to you. The camera LCD and your computer monitor (if not calibrated) might be lying to you.

I would do this in LR and also compare to DPP. Clearly it is possible to get the .jpeg from the raw (the camera did it), so either it is in the processing or in what you perceived on the LCD.

First - what are your default settings in LR 3.6? Can you attach a screenshot of the sliders in the Develop module for, at least, the Basic, Tone Curve and Camera Calibration panels?

As stated above, try doing a test where you shoot raw+JPEG with your camera style to generate the JPEG. Set the White Balance to daylight, i.e., not AUTO. Exposure should be set properly for the scene.

If you bring a test raw into DPP and apply your picture style to the image, do you get the same result as the JPEG that the camera generated? You should.

Because you use a "custom" picture style in-camera, you should recreate it in the Canon Picture Style Editor so that you can apply the same settings (Neutral color; Contrast, Sharpness and Saturation minimum) to your raw in DPP. To do this, fire up the Picture Style Editor, open one of your test raws in it. There are some things you need to configure in the Picture Style Editor - set the working space and monitor profile in the Preferences. Make sure the "Tools > Preliminary Adjustments" (Brightness and White Balance) are set to 0 or appropriately. Set the base picture style to, in your case, Neutral. Click on the Advanced tab and set the Contrast, Sharpness and Saturation sliders to match your camera settings. Save the picture style with a useful name. Now, in DPP you can apply this custom picture style to your raw file and save the image as a JPEG with the same Picture Style you set in-camera and compare the results to the camera JPEG.

This exercise will help eliminate things like camera LCD brightness from the problem.

As far as LR3 goes, until we get an understanding of your defaults, it is not so straightforward to pinpoint as issue.

kirk

If the OP can cross-check using DPP, then the issue may be as simple as lowering the LCD brightness or monitor brightness!