DSLR cropped sensor days numbered ?

I wonder if the quality ASP-C or cropped sensors DSLR days are numbered with the introduction of the new full framers..the Nikon D600 and Canon 6D ?

By quality ASP-C DSLR, I'm talking about cameras like the Canon 7D, the Pentax K-5 and the Nikon D300s.

The full framers...the new ones...the 6D and the D600 prices are creeping ever closer to that of a quality ASP-C camera body.

I can imagine that ASP-C bodies won't entirely disappear...entry level , maybe mid level will remain. Or maybe not.

But I think it's not likely that there will be ASP-C cropped sensor DSLR's such as a Canon 8D, a Nikon D400s or a Pentax K-6 to replace the current models.

Your thoughts ?

I don't expect them to vanish, for the simple fact that ASP-C sensors are more profitable because of lower production costs. I do think the full-frame market is expanding, though. It's been rumored that the 7D is going to be wholly replaced and Canon won't have a "pro cropper" anymore, but I still think photojournalists (particularly sports photogs) will continue to use crop bodies for the extra reach the crop factor offers (and yes, I'm well aware this technically an illusion, before all the FF purists jump on me...).

When I bought my Digital Rebel (300D) back in 2004, I "knew" the APS-C sensor was only a stop gap until FF became more affordable. So all my lenses are EF and not EF-S (apart from the kit lens).

Fast forward to 2012 - I now have a 60D. The image quality is so good on it, I am no longer contemplating a FF camera any more. I can see the advantage for a professional, but not for an amateur like me. I do not print larger than 8"x10" - letter/A4 is the maximum paper size on my printer. When I send images to family and friends, most ask for reduced resolution so it does not exceed their email limits ... and they look at the photos on their smart phones anyway.

I tend to use my cameras for 5-10 years before upgrading. If a FF camera is within my budget at the time, I'll certainly consider it. However, I suspect that APS-C will also be around and much more affordable - that will be a decision for future me to make.

The crop offers an advantage over FF in terms of reach for wildlife so I shan't be swapping for a FF any time soon.

If FF cameras become more affordable, then think how cheap APS-C cameras might become! I think it'll still be a while yet though.

I'm using a 60D right now and planning on getting a FF next year, but I will definitely keep a crop body around, like some said the 'extra reach' of crop for wildlife is really helpful, and maybe I will upgrade my 60D with another crop body when Canon releases some with a new APS-C sensor.

ALL the APS-C sensor equipped cameras are less expensive than the least expensive FF (6D). I am talking about new camera prices.

So, I don't expect anything to change, regarding how the customer preferences are distributed, and Canon will try to satisfy each customer segment.

I wonder if there will even be a 70D? What will they add, a touch screen and full time video focus? We already have that -the T4i

I'd love to go full frame. My 60D does everything I need to to and more, but the crop factor is simply annoying.

I'm planning on getting a 28mm 1.8 as my standard lens soon. If it weren't for the crop factor, I would've been perfectly happy with the 50mm 1.8 I have previously owned. I still think Canon needs an EF-S 30mm 1.8 in their lineup. I have no idea why Canon just lets everyone buy Sigma's EX DC 1.4. I was considering selling the 60D in favor of a used 5D Classic to use with my 50mm 1.8, however I decided that I'd miss the video features too much. The 60D is both an amazing still camera and an awesome video camera all in one. So for now I've sold off the 50 1.8 and I'm going to grab the 28 1.8 and be happy with that.

I could see myself selling off my lenses and buying a 6D and a 50 in the future- but not until it's out for a few years and the price of a used body drops under 1k. Until then I'll likely stick with my 60D and the 28.

ejackso1 wrote in post #15094637
I'd love to go full frame. My 60D does everything I need to to and more, but the crop factor is simply annoying.

I'm planning on getting a 28mm 1.8 as my standard lens soon. If it weren't for the crop factor, I would've been perfectly happy with the 50mm 1.8 I have previously owned. I still think Canon needs an EF-S 30mm 1.8 in their lineup. I have no idea why Canon just lets everyone buy Sigma's EX DC 1.4. I was considering selling the 60D in favor of a used 5D Classic to use with my 50mm 1.8, however I decided that I'd miss the video features too much. The 60D is both an amazing still camera and an awesome video camera all in one. So for now I've sold off the 50 1.8 and I'm going to grab the 28 1.8 and be happy with that.

I could see myself selling off my lenses and buying a 6D and a 50 in the future- but not until it's out for a few years and the price of a used body drops under 1k. Until then I'll likely stick with my 60D and the 28.

The EF 28mm f/1.8 is already a small, light weight lens, and the difference between 28mm and 30mm is rather insignificant. What would Canon hope to gain by creating an EFS version of this lens?

I was very happy using the EF 28mm f/1.8 on a 7D, and was also still able to find a use for the lens after buying a 5D3.

As for the original question, as someone who enjoys shooting wildlife, I still have a use for my 7D even after buying the 5D3. I am sure others feel the same way.

I think so. I believe the APS-C sensor or micro 4/3 mirrorless camera will be the de-facto high-IQ choice for the vast majority of consumers going forward.

My brother in law is a good example I think. Recently he hated the IQ (esp low light) he got from his point and shoot so wanted something that would take better pictures that he could also play around with a bit. At most he's going to get 2-3 lenses and be done with it.

He started out looking at DSLRs, but ended up getting a Sony NEX (which I strongly recommended).

I think in certain overseas markets mirrorless has already overtaken DSLRs (Pretty sure this is the case in Japan).

In about 3-4 years time, if the average consumer wants to buy a digital camera and walks into the store, I think he'll see a lot less P&Ss (that segment will probably be taken over by cell phones), about the same amount of superzoom P&Ss, slightly more upscale P&Ss (like the Sony RX100), a LOT more APS-C sensored mirrorless cameras (Sony, Canon, and I think Nikon will jump on board), a lot less APS-C DSLRs, and FFs that with the kit lens will come in around $1800-$2000.

The problem with that argument is that virtually any technology that would become less expensive to FF, would also likely drive the cropped bodies downward in price as well if the technology is applied there. In other words, say they suddenly discover a method to make a FF sensor less expensive, they likely would apply that same technology to the cropped sensor and lower the camera cost to make it competitive. Some would argue they would hold the price and reap the profits which of course could happen, but competition tends to drive price down.

I don't think so. They are cheaper to make and as long as they can continue to improve them, there would be no reason to get rid of them. There are literally MILLIONS of EF-S lenses out there and they continue to pour money into new ones so I don' think APS-C is going anywhere soon.
Although there are "rumors" of the 7D not having a successor, there are more rumors to the contrary. It's even been mentioned that the 7D 2.0 firmware update was done to buy time due to delayed development of an all new APS-C sensor for the 7D. This makes a lot of sense because otherwise it will leave a gaping hole in their lineup. A $6000 camera with super-high fps, then a $3000 camera with decent fps (but still slower than 7D), and a $2200 camera with even less. If you follow the design concepts of the 7D, you'll see that the goal was an APS-C that comes close in specs to a 1D series. The ideal 7DII would be 10-12 fps with dual digic 5, about 22MP APS-C with a top native ISO of 12,800 expanded to 51,200. It would have the same metering and AF point setup of the 5DIII and would leave PLENTY of room for a 70D and an 80D after that.

Whatever the case, they just made a new sensor for the T4i and are working on at least one other APS-C sensor as well as plenty of new lenses. I don't think it is going away.

4/3 is a really small format, APS-C is a smaller format, FF is a larger format, medium format is even larger format...it makes sense to offer cameras in each format at several different levels of price, to suit both the degree of user sophistication (or lack thereof), as well as levels of feature need and/or budget.

The new 6D is merely the 'entry level FF', while the 7D is the 'pro level APS-C).
As pointed out, smaller format sensors means cheaper production costs (manufacturing reject sensors are fewer in number when the area of silicon is smaller)

Scott M wrote in post #15094688
The EF 28mm f/1.8 is already a small, light weight lens, and the difference between 28mm and 30mm is rather insignificant. What would Canon hope to gain by creating an EFS version of this lens?

I was very happy using the EF 28mm f/1.8 on a 7D, and was also still able to find a use for the lens after buying a 5D3.

Something more affordable. The Canon 28 1.8 is $450, and the Sigma 30 is $490. Even the somewhat outdated Canon 35 2 is $310. They're all pretty expensive lenses. I was actually under the impression that the Sigma 30 was cheaper than the Canon 28, but I guess the prices have changed, or I was just wrong.

Nikon has the AF-S 35 1.8 for $200. The closest thing Canon has is the 40 2.8, which I do admit is cool, and I would totally use one if I had a full frame body, but sadly I don't think it's the best focal length for crop bodies, at least not for me, and it's slower too. I still think there would be a large market for an EF-S 30mm 1.8 with the optical/build quality of the 50mm 1.8. Maybe it's just me though.

but yeah, I'm sure I'll be happy with the 28 1.8, and keeping it if I ever decide to upgrade to a FF body is one reason for buying it instead of the Sigma.The only problem is coming up with the money for one.