Do you carry a firearm for protection?

It's a great deal of fun to imagine the perfect situations to be a hero, and pretend one of those situations is the way it's going to happen with you.

Questions:

Do you always make a point of choosing the seat in the restaurant where you would not be in the path of a pickup truck that crashes through the window? If not, you're in Condition White.

Do you always choose the seat in a movie theater nearest an exit but with an immediate view of all entrances? If not, you're in Condition White.

Are you prepared for multiple assailants and back-ups--some of whom might not make their appearance until after you've drawn your gun?

Have you included your Significant Others in your defensive strategies so that they know what you're going to do and what they should do in those situations? If not, you're still in Condition White.

Have you trained for remaining in the fight after you've been wounded? If not, you're still in Condition White.

Being overseas in the military in the period of 80s terrorism, we learned to always drive defensively. I have to shake my head when I see guys in pickups or SUVs with gun-bearer bumper stickers who pull up to within three or four feet of the car in front of them at stop lights, leaving themselves no maneuver space. That's Condition White.

pwm2 wrote in post #15118026
Except that I'm 1000 more likely to have an accident with my car on the way there or home.

Well done. Your car has all the latest safety features and you got your family to the restaurant safely.

Then later, while cowering in mortal fear, you and your family watch others getting brutally shot, their blood pooling around them. They cower in paralysing fear as people beg for mercy, cry and shake in fear, and moan and cry in pain. They cower in freezing fear as they watch people's lives end brutally slowly and other's lives end mercifully quickly. And they look to you in sideways glances for protection. But all they see in your little shaking hand is a little can of pepper spray. It's so pitiful, you don't even bother throwing it at the pickup driver. Then you and your family are killed, one by one, in front of each other.

And all the while, your car with all the latest safety devices just sits in the parking lot.

Yeah. It's >1000 times more likely, but it takes only that ONE time. By any chance, do you play the lottery?

RDKirk wrote in post #15117751
They shoot themselves or are killed when finally cornered by overwhelming police force. Give themselves up to "somebody with a weapon?" No, not usually. Use the cases you yourself have already cited as examples.

In this circumstance, we are both correct in our statements. They were all ended by somebody with a gun and they were all multiple people with guns. Of course, police usually do respond in multiples so that makes sense.

Google Joel Myrick. He was an assistant school principal who stopped a school shooting in 1997, without police assistance.

Again, I'm not saying having a gun will solve all the problems and will work in all circumstances. I'm just saying at least you have a fighting chance.

A serious question, I regularly shoot vermin game and deer, when I am out with a rifle I am alert and tuned into my surroundings and acutely aware of any movements or unusual activities, this is because I am hunting, it can be exhausting. When I am out and about enjoying myself in a restaurant or cinema with my family I never worry or fanaticise that something will happen along the lines of some of the scenarios played out here. So do all you guys that carry a concealed weapon have part of their brain set to "condition whatever" thereby making it impossible to truly relax?

icopus wrote in post #15117848
So one day, you and your family are having a quiet relaxing dinner. You're in a 'safe' neighborhood in the quiet little town of Peaceful.

Suddenly, a pickup comes crashing through the front wall! After the ititial shock, diners begin to help the injured including the pickup driver. But instead of helping, they are confronted by the driver who has calmly exited his vehicle and begun shooting. You watch in shock as he calmly walks the restaurant picking off diners at random. And he's headed in your direction.

What do you do without an escape and without a gun???

1. Soil myself and hope the shooter finds it so offensive he doesn't target me.
2. Quickly make a softball sized ball of roast beef and potatoes and toss it at the shooter.
3. Deploy my invisibility cloak.

rick_reno wrote in post #15118190
1. Soil myself and hope the shooter finds it so offensive he doesn't target me.

That would deter me!

Add some kernal corn for the confusion effect.

I can't find this on Amazon. Where'd you get that?!

neil_r wrote in post #15118182
A serious question...

I don't think so.

neil_r wrote in post #15118182
So do all you guys that carry a concealed weapon have part of their brain set to "condition whatever" thereby making it impossible to truly relax?

No, I'm not that dedicated to it. I just try to be aware of my surroundings. Basically, trust your instincts like the guy who posted a little while back about grabbing his wife and keep walking. Common sense stuff like stay out of bad areas, and mind seedy looking characters near you.

As much as I thoroughly enjoy a good, civilized, intellectual debate, I think I will try to fade away from this thread now (but it will be hard for me to do). I think it's run its course and it's taking up way too much of my weekend.

Thank you all for the mental exercises and again, I commend everybody for keeping this absolutely polarizing debate civil. It goes to show the caliber of the people here. No pun intended.

No...

neil_r wrote in post #15118182
A serious question, I regularly shoot vermin game and deer, when I am out with a rifle I am alert and tuned into my surroundings and acutely aware of any movements or unusual activities, this is because I am hunting, it can be exhausting. When I am out and about enjoying myself in a restaurant or cinema with my family I never worry or fanaticise that something will happen along the lines of some of the scenarios played out here. So do all you guys that carry a concealed weapon have part of their brain set to "condition whatever" thereby making it impossible to truly relax?

No, but I would try NOT to seat in the middle of a restaurant, near the wall is best for me and in training with IDPA (Int'l Defensive Pistol Assn) we practice many scenarios you may find yourself and family in, it is a fun to shoot IDPA, as well as get trained on the use of your firearm. Goggle it and see some of the set ups we practice.
In my gun club we shoot IDPA once a month and four times a month with IPSC format, once a month is 3 gun shoot- pistol, shotgun and rifle.Once a month is also just machine gun shot.
10 minutes from my home is the largest public shooting park in the USA, Clark County shooting Park- pistols, rifle, shotgun (35 bays) archery, an old gallery I took in 2010.
http://tonyniev.smugmu​g.com …ing-Range/10847154_ZFpqDw

As you can see from the photos, we love our guns and some even take the family for a shoot after Sunday services.

This is me with an Uzi

HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'text/html' | Byte size: ZERO

KoalaCowboy wrote in post #15102821
A large percentage of my photography takes me to the backcountry of CO; as such, I am always armed. On more than one occasion I have had other folks happen by and say "thanks for being here."

As the old saying goes, "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure."

Nearly 40 ears of pounding the Colorado back country and never saw a need to burden myself with a firearm. And I moved there from Montana where it was rare to see a pickup without a rifle in the back window.

Walking around downtown Denver at night? That's another story.

I've been a silent onlooker to this thread since it started a few days ago and for the most part, this group can be congratulated for it's civility while discussing a charged topic - even if it has diverted from the original topic.

So, before I go any further, here is my answer to the original topic:

I was up at Maroon Bells Lake at about 5am. I was the only one there and for one of the few times since I have begun taking pictures I realized how vulnerable I was. So, my question is, how many of us carry guns when we are out by ourselves?

If you are competent using firearms (specifically the one you plan to carry), it's legal to carry where you are based on your location and certification status, and you are prepared to exhaust all other means of remaining safe before using the firearm (knowing how to avoid bad situations in the back country, bear spray, etc.), then there is no problem carrying a firearm. Chances are you'll never have to use it and if you're in a situation where you do, it's probably not going to save you from serious injury or death - but it could. Still, if all of the above is true and carrying affords you some peace of mind I don't think anyone should be able to tell you that you can't.

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Many of the folks that can't understand our relationship with firearms feel that way for many reasons, two of the larger ones being:

-The landscape in which they live is not home to many creatures that can do them harm. Although the threat of animal attacks is oft overstated, a firearm on your hip goes a long way toward making an evening trek through mountain lion/grizzly/wolf country a good deal less stressful. Others who do live in that type of landscape just don't feel that type of stress which is great for them - but some of us do to one extent or another. Just becuse you're comfortable un-armed doesn't mean I have to be.

-My parents were very anti-gun and anti-hunting in general, I was introduced to them by my uncle around the age of 13. To them, firearms were more than a tool - they were tools of destruction and promoters of crime. Although inherently dangerous - like many things in our lives - they are nothing more than tools.

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Although I have a carry permit and I do carry on a regular basis, I'm not convinced it's necessary - I do it because I can and I agree with the mentality that it's better to have it and not need it, etc. But, of the gun rights I have, it is probably the one I would be least upset to lose. However, I am an outdoorsman, sportsman and hunter - I would be furious if I lost one of the most important tools I have or couldn't protect myself in the backcountry.

Not only is it an activity that Im passionate about and is my main motivation for this writing, but I also have a bit of a "doomsday prepper" whisper in the back of my mind that is just loud enough to make me want to have the knowledge and tools to be able to feed and protect my family if any number of unlikely scenarios (ranging from a simple break-in to my own home, to natural disaster/looting/gangs​, to foreign invasion all the way to a utopian dream of quitting my job and living off the land for no reason other than I want to) ever came to fruition.

I'm even OK with it if you want to replace "unlikely scenario" with "fantasy", I'm self aware enough to know that may be closer to the truth but it doesn't change the way I feel. I don't have a bunker dug out behind my house but taking away my guns would feel like someone was taking away my ability to provide for my family in a worst case scenario and that it not something I would give away lightly.

Fester wrote in post #15113734
This is Texas and everyone carries all the time.
Its funny here, at a 4 way stop sign everyone is courteous, "you go ahead", "no you go", "no you go." I just don't want to get shot.

I know this is supposed to be a joke, but really people in Texas don't know what to do if there isn't a light telling them if they can go or not. It's not because they're scared of being shot.

And the joke isn't funny. I'm not scared on the roads here. I feel more safe if I know that there are legal Texas residents around me that are armed.

You're saying that more guns makes one feel less safe (or more stressed). That's not a good pro-gun argument.

To the orginal question, no I do not always, but I will from time to time as I have the need.

spyderpig wrote in post #15115668
You're right, that one doesn't sound right. I usually try to do a reality check before posting the stats, but I admit I flaked on that one. I've seen other stats that I could have used in this debate, but passed on them because the sources were weak or they just didn't sound right.

I have emailed the author of that stat to see if he can offer any explanation, but I don't really expect to get a response. If I do, I'll be sure to post it here.

As for the other stats, you'll notice most of them are from different sources.

Surprisingly, I did get a response from the author and I had a good email chat with him. He tried to trace back his notes on the calculations but after 10+ years he could not find enough of his notes to fully reproduce the stats.

So for the next revision of his publication he will be removing it. He can't say that the stat is right or wrong, but without his original calculations it is insufficient and thus unpresentable.

He thanked me, and thus you kevindar, for this critical analysis and is always looking for ways to improve the debate.