EOS-M Had a play yesterday. Like it a lot!

Nice to hear Skygod, the little EOS M sounds great!

I agree, a mirrorless is a secondary camera to my main cam, For some things the lenses and accessories just arent out there yet..

I disagree on the 22mm f/2 STM though, I quite wish I had that lens for my 7D actually (Havnt USED it, i just mean in general the focal length and aperture would be an instant buy for me)

joeblack2022 wrote in post #15103391
I know a Nikon shooter...//....but I think there was some issue around not being able to disable the auto-off which had a maximum setting of 15 minutes. Seems dumb, but wonder if this was intentional on Nikon's part.

Hey Joe (and everyone!) been to a different store today with my 100-400L again so here's today's findings...

1) The auto switch-off power saver CAN be disabled!

splbound wrote in post #15103700
Great stuff and sounds like a good complement for my Canon's.
Could you elaborate more of the AF speed. This is the one thing that has been bugging me from all the comments on the pre-production one.
Would you be able to rate the AF speed comparitively to another camera?

2) The AF has several modes. Couldn't work them all out in store, but I tried the single spot selectable AF point "version" that comes with the EOS-M with my 100-400L, it was fine. Of course it's not as fast as my 7D, but dur! Canon wouldn't do that, would they!!!

Charlie wrote in post #15103914
I would have thought that the 22 pancake would be one of the most intriguing lenses canon has ever made. It's an F2 pancake at a good FOV which can make the camera a 1 lens point and shoot with DSLR quality and pns size. Other than that, not much going for the system.

3) Yep. I agree. I thought it would be yummy. But it's not. The optics are too small, F2 is not fast enough, and the price, IMHO, is too much when I already have other lenses that do what I want.
I'M NOT SAYING IT WON'T WORK FOR YOU!!!! But hopefully, everyone reading this, by now, knows that all us photographers (should!!!) buy lenses for a purpose. I'm semi-pro for my wife's concerts (and her chums) so for me, the 22mm would be a pointless purchase.

joeseph wrote in post #15104719
thanks for that. After only an hour and a half with 100-400 & 1D3 at an airshow nearly two weeks ago, my wrist still feels arthritic. I must be getting old 'cos I started thinking about an EOS-M afterwards. Might wait until Lifepixel has a tutorial on IR conversions and get two of them...

4) No worries. AND, more good news. The EF/EF-S adaptor ring has a tripod mount attached to it! This means that even for modest lenses, like an 85L or Siggy 85 f/1.4, there would be no strain put on the lens mount of the body!
Well done Canon! Good thinking.

Yogi Bear wrote in post #15105453
Yes, please! All of the reviews that I have seen so far, say that AF is very slow. Not true?

5) Again, I'll say that the AF is fine. It was clearly faster with the 18-55 STM than my 100-400L, but I think that's obvious, due to the shear amount of glass being moved. But I wouldn't actually expect to use an M-camera with a huge lens on it very often.
What I've not managed to work out yet is the continuous shooting mode....more on that when I next pop to a shop!

Charlie wrote in post #15105663
compared to m43 and sony, it's very slow. You can watch the AF on youtube, it's on par with point and shoots...

Great point Charlie, but having played with it, I would say it's not "very slow", and unless I'm very much mistaken, I can't attach any of my EF/EF-S lenses to an M43 OM-D or Sony....so the comparison is pretty pointless.

Tom Reichner wrote in post #15105964
Skygod, What the heck is EOS-M? I've never heard of it before.
I really don't feel like googling it and wading thru hundreds of results, any of which may or may not explain it in layman's terms.
So, could you just tell me what it is?

Hey Tom,
Seems like you've been answered, but "M" is Canon's new mount system for a compact, mirrorless, interchangeable lens camera.
I've now played with two, and like 'em....
....BUT, I've no intention of buying one just yet.

Why?

Because no viewfinder, to me, is just looking for trouble when, a) the sun is really bright, b) your battery is low so every ohm counts, c) you do want to use a long lens, hand-held, in as comfortable a way as possible...etc.

6) And another thing I found today which is kind of linked to the screen, is the multiple overlays available. One is a very simple layout in a deep red, which I suspect would be VERY good for night photography, and might, perhaps, put less of a drain on the battery than any of the full-colour overlays.

7) And, today I had a good play in Av, Tv, and M modes.
They work really well!
The touch screen is VERY fast to use for selecting aperture/shutter speed. And in combination with the little wheel thing on the right, I'd argue that with practice, any dSLR user would match what they demand from their regular gear, as far as choosing settings is concerned.

8) The new flash is crap!
I thought so, but only today had a chance to use it.
Stick with a "proper" flash.

Final thoughts so far:
I still think Canon have a winner here. Everything about it feels so much "better made" than the competition, and IF THEY RELEASE A "PRO" (for want of a better word) MODEL SOON, I'll get one.

But this model....?
Nah. I don't think so.
Not for what I want....but it IS a great little camera. No doubts.

Regards,

Simon

Thanks for checking on this with your 100-400.

Can you quantify what "fine" is? Are we talking about 1 second, less than that, or?

skygod44 wrote in post #15107064
The AF has several modes. Couldn't work them all out in store, but I tried the single spot selectable AF point "version" that comes with the EOS-M with my 100-400L, it was fine. Of course it's not as fast as my 7D, but dur! Canon wouldn't do that, would they!!!

Thanks for that.

The way I see it, for my needs, if AF's faster than the G7 I want to replace it with, it will be good. I intend to use it with the native eos-m mount lenses primarily so very keen to see it's focusing speed with these lenses.

I am comparing it against purchasing the Olympus OM-D so It up against some steep competition.

Being able to use my EF lenses on it is a big plus, I can use my current lineup until canon brings out something similar in the EOS-M mount. The sensor format on the EOS-M over the m43 om-d is one big plus too, I will know what to expect regarding lens length, f-stops and DOF.

Not too worried about having no viewfinder, it would be nice to have but not necessary for my intended, every day take with me usage. It is looking to complement by DLSR's very well and serve as a good replacement for my ageing G7.

Can't wait till it reaches the stores here in London to compare it for myself.

Tom Reichner wrote in post #15106466
But then I would have to look thru all of the brands and models until I found what I was looking for. Exactly what I was afraid I would have to do if I used a google search, and exactly what I wanted to avoid having to do. Not to mention I wasn't even sure what I was looking for, as I had never even heard of it.

My internet connection is extremely slow. Realize that once I click on a webpage, it takes 20-30 seconds for it to finally appear. That's a big reason I wanted a direct link, not an indirect one.

Most people don't want to have to click on several things, wait a long time for pages to load, then look thru lengthy lists of things, focusing carefully on all of the text so that they don't inadvertently skip over what they were looking for. A direct link works so much better!

You know what works even better?

Having other people do it for you.

Wait, I just googled the term eos-m and the very first result was a link to DPReview's preview of this extremely difficult to find camera. How 'bout that...

Rex914 wrote in post #15107114
Thanks for checking on this with your 100-400.
Can you quantify what "fine" is? Are we talking about 1 second, less than that, or?

On the 18-55 a couple of days ago, when I touched the screen to see what would happen, it snapped to focus (and this was just some random spot I'd touched...not in the centre of the screen), and took the shot.
I really was surprised.
With my 100-400L, nope, not that fast. Not as fast as my 7Ds, but that's fine with me....I was really just seeing what it felt like.
I'll try again, when I can, but I'd guess 'less than a second'. And that was at 400mm from one end of the store to the other - which is where they have all the TVs for sale, so it's dark, to help show off the "quality of the pictures", or something like that. Which wouldn't help the focus much.

splbound wrote in post #15107272
Thanks for that.

No worries! I'm enjoying playing with the camera at the moment.

I've never used a G7, but I did try out a G12 and the EOS-M seemed better in every way.

This, to me, is a large part of the "why should anyone want one"?
Lenses make such a huge difference, that any system which can use EF/EF-S type lenses as well as its own native lenses is THE way to go, IMHO.

Yep.
That's how I see it, too.
Sometimes, I simply can't be bothered taking a dSLR. I use my smart-phone in those situations.
And, if I crunch one of my 7Ds when out for fun, just before a paid gig....!
Eeeshk!
A mirrorless, such as the EOS-M (or, hopefully, it's upgraded brother in the asap-near future!) would suit me fine.

More soon!

Simon

Thank you, Simon! Much appreciated!

Yogi

Simon - Thanks for taking the time to test the EOS-M out and give us all this great feedback. I can't wait for the US release. I would be interested in a pro version as well. When Canon gets around to making it I'll get one and hand the EOS-M over to the Mrs.

I'm thinking the 20mm f/2 lens will be fine for most. I mean, Panasonic's 20mm f/1.7 is like the most popular lens in the m4/3s market--though it is a bit faster than the Canon.

skygod44 wrote in post #15103092
Well, I started a thread in here a few months back as I'd heard the EOS-M was on its way, and I've just done a search and can't see anything about anyone in here actually having a play.

Well....lucky ol' Skygod did have a good play yesterday, and I have to say, it's a lovely little camera.

I've got the latest brochure in my grubby hands too, and so I can tell you all the prices here in Japan so you can all work out the equivalent in your own countries.

So, here's my mini review!

1) The camera - general "feel". (Price = 62,000 Yen)
Very good, IMO. A good "weight", feels very solid and well made.
The lens thread is just what we're used to = very well made, and it locks onto the lenses just as I'd expect.

In my local shop, they have all the colours, and I have to say, each will have its buyers. I think Canon did well here, as the finish of each is high quality, and comparing with other bodies I could grab, it seemed better, or at least, on par.

2) Lenses.
The 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 IS STM is soooo sweet! (35,000 Yen)
I'm used to lenses like my Siggy 17-55 f/2.8, and my 70-200L 2.8, so to even hold a lens this small, which focuses fast and produces quality images made me laugh in the shop!
Fast AF.
On screen, it looked like it produced quality images without hideous distortion, CA, etc. throughout the zoom range.

The 22mm f/2 STM (30,000 Yen)....hmmm....I'm not so sure I'd bother with it. A bit pricey, when compared with the new 40mm STM pancake. Yes, it's really small, I mean, you could lose it in your wallet! But, I don't like the images I got from it, mainly as it just seemed like a step down in useability compared to the zoom....and here's why:

The EF/EF-S lens adapter....it's cheap (12,000 Yen), and straight away, I tried it with my Siggy 30 f/1.4. NO CONTEST! I think, if I get an EOS-M, I'd get the little zoom, plus the adapter and maybe the dedicated flash ( = Speedlight 90EX, at 9,000 Yen: though it's a bit crap), and that'll be it.

3) AF on the screen using it as a "touch screen".
VERY fast.
I was actually shocked the first time I tried this, as I was only touching the screen to see what would happen....expecting something at a glacial speed....and before I knew what I'd done, the camera was showing me the photo I'd just taken.

4) Sensor.
Well, I didn't buy it, so no chance of uploading for side-by-side stuff, but chimping on site, yeah, I'll have to say it appears to be right up there with either of my 7Ds.
Which means, with a bit of thinking, this tiny little thing could easily be of use to me........in fact, I'm already thinking, slap a remote on it (RC-6 = 2,500 Yen), set it up on a tripod at the concerts I shoot, near the back of the auditorium, and shoot all the wide shots, while I play around near the front with a 70-200 doing all the action shots....at the same time! Could be fun!

5) Balance with a huge lens.
This idea was completely "poo-pooed" in POTN. But last weekend, here in Japan, they changed the Canon EOS-M commercials from merely "showing the new camera with one of its own lenses", to "showing the camera with a 70-200L and a 24L TS-E lens stuck on the front!!!!!
So Canon really doesn't see this as a problem.....and I have to say, it worked with both my 70-200L and 100-400L.
How?? Because why shouldn't it?
I work in weddings (as the dude who says to the bride and groom, "do you?") and our photographers REGULARLY use 5D2s and 7Ds in Live-view, using 70-200Ls stuck on the front....so, what's the difference?

Oh, and the cheapest "all in" cost for a whole wedding where I work is 4,000,000 Yen (or about $43,000) so no, we don't use amateur photographers!!!

Sorry guys, you're acting like dinosaurs if you think it's somehow "wrong". BUT, having no viewfinder, there will be times when it could be a lot tougher to use a long lens on the EOS-M, than on a regular dSLR.
So, I think "best of both worlds" is the way to go. Which means don't sell your dSLR, just get an EOS-M as your "high tech toy"...which happens to capable of taking damn good photos!

Well, that's about all I had time for....sorry to waffle a bit, but those who know me know I sometimes write what I'm thinking, without enough editing - sorry!

Cheers for now,

Simon
[Who is pondering on getting an M.......if there's no sign of a "pro" model coming out soon, with a viewfinder]

thx for the review, I'm hoping the price comes down enough for it to be a second camera

Tom Reichner wrote in post #15106383
This camera is interesting, but I think it may be best for "regular people", as it does not seem to meet the IQ needs of a stock photographer

Its effectively a 650d in a small package, plenty good enough for stock photography.

krb wrote in post #15106821
In the animal world, some animals hunt for their food and some animals hang out near campgrounds and beg for whatever scraps they can get. I'm sure that the ones that choose to beg find it more "pleasant" than hunting, but that doesn't mean that it's healthy for them or that such behavior should be encouraged.

WIN.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Hey guys,

Thanks for the "thanks" so far.
Though I can't see myself buying this first model, I really am enjoying playing with it, so I'll do some more testing next opportunity.

Oh, and about the whole "touch panel" thing; I have an Android smart-phone, and got used to the idea quickly enough (I'm 43), so the idea of having a touch panel on a decent digital camera wasn't "odd" to me.
But, I'm really impressed (so far) with how well the one on the EOS-M works.

NikStar wrote in post #15108373
I'm thinking the 20mm f/2 lens will be fine for most. I mean, Panasonic's 20mm f/1.7 is like the most popular lens in the m4/3s market--though it is a bit faster than the Canon.

Yeah, like I said before, I'm sure that for plenty of P&S --> EOS-M users, the 22mm f/2 STM be a creative-dream come true.
But it's not my cup of tea.
Reasons are:
1) I'm NOT a landscape photographer, by any stretch of the imagination. So, "out hiking, ooooh what a pretty mountain, I'll take a photo" thoughts don't even enter my head.
2) I hate "getting it all in the frame" photos. Which a 22mm lens certainly will be good at.
3) I work in a very narrow field (classical/opera concerts in darkish auditoriums with up to 100 musicians/performers, and up to 2,500 in the audience). So what I'm looking for is VERY different from most people - or in other words, I want a "not"-P&S for Missus Skygod, which I can also use when I feel like it. So I know exactly what I want from the lenses I'll stick on the front...
...and the 22mm ain't it!

Right...gotta go, as Missus Skygod has a little lunchtime concert which I'm shooting.


Cheers all!
Simon

I've already pre-ordered it on B&H.

Bottom line is I want an APS-C sized sensor or larger, small footprint camera. The EOS-M is the answer to that want. Being able to use an adapter and use my existing lens collection is a huge bonus.

I recognize Sony's had their APS-C mirrorless solution out for some time, but I'm not necessarily interested in learning another company's way of doing a camera after all this time with Canon. Not that I can't be swayed, though.

The thing that sealed the deal for me on the EOS-M purchase was my trip to Disneyland. The 7D was just too much. I took 3x the number of photos with my wife's S95 and probably 65%+ were taken at the widest focal length with the largest aperture.

The EOS-M will be my every day carry camera. I don't see it leaving my side except to go to work (I work in a secure facility where cameras of all stripes are prohibited).

drew wrote in post #15110837
I've already pre-ordered it on B&H.

Bottom line is I want an APS-C sized sensor or larger, small footprint camera. The EOS-M is the answer to that want. Being able to use an adapter and use my existing lens collection is a huge bonus.

I recognize Sony's had their APS-C mirrorless solution out for some time, but I'm not necessarily interested in learning another company's way of doing a camera after all this time with Canon. Not that I can't be swayed, though.

The thing that sealed the deal for me on the EOS-M purchase was my trip to Disneyland. The 7D was just too much. I took 3x the number of photos with my wife's S95 and probably 65%+ were taken at the widest focal length with the largest aperture.

The EOS-M will be my every day carry camera. I don't see it leaving my side except to go to work (I work in a secure facility where cameras of all stripes are prohibited).

Hey Drew,
I hear you! And looking at your sig. we share some of the same lenses, so I agree wholeheartedly - being able to use a small body with its own lens, of slap on an existing EF/EF-S lens simply opens up all sorts of new possibilities.
I just hope Canon will release a more "pro(ish) body" asap....

Cheers for now,

Simon