Gear change - time to replace the 100-400 I think

Remember your not shooting at 400mm. You are shooting at 640mm. You could stand outside, turn on live view while you are zoomed in at 640mm and try to keep the camera as steady as possible while looking at live view. Now zoom into 10x on the live view and just go ahead and try to keep whatever is in the box in frame, it's near impossible while hand holding. Zoom to 250mm (which is equal to 400mm on a full frame) and you can see it's a little easier to keep the subject in frame while at 10x in live view.

Shooting at 400mm on a 1.6 crop is VERY hard shooting at 1/250 sec. I know you want to use low ISO, but it's just so hard to get a sharp image at that focal length WITHOUT getting motion blur from hand shake, you have to accept that with this lens. Once you accept this you will enjoy the lens. Basically we are trying to get the same range and quality as a $7000+ lens for $1500. There are very view other options and if you look at the charts and really study all the options out there, the 100-400mm is the supreme option before you make the leap to 300mm f2.8 + primes.

I would honestly go outside with your camera and lens and shoot at 1/250sec, 1/500sec and 1/1000 sec on various subjects. Just go in your back yard or the closest park and find objects that are say 10, 30 and 50 feet away and just take some test shots. Look to see if you can get much sharper images with the faster shutter speeds.

inernets wrote in post #15116886
Remember your not shooting at 400mm. You are shooting at 640mm.

after that line, i feel like skipD will be in here posting within minutes....

inernets wrote in post #15116886
Remember your not shooting at 400mm. You are shooting at 640mm.

Oh no you're not.

inernets wrote in post #15116886
Now zoom into 10x on the live view and just go ahead and try to keep whatever is in the box in frame, it's near impossible while hand holding.

Yes, it's near impossible because you can't hold the camera steady and see the LCD at the same time!

hollis_f wrote in post #15117345
Oh no you're not.

Yes, it's near impossible because you can't hold the camera steady and see the LCD at the same time!

I just tried this with my 40D and my 5D II with live view. To me it seems like there is almost twice as much shake when using the 40D with 10x magnification. Maybe each camera magnifies differently, but i noticed a significant more amount of shake while looking through the 1.6 crop.

inernets wrote in post #15117843
I just tried this with my 40D and my 5D II with live view. To me it seems like there is almost twice as much shake when using the 40D with 10x magnification. Maybe each camera magnifies differently, but i noticed a significant more amount of shake while looking through the 1.6 crop.

of course there is. believe what you see. not what you hear !

inernets wrote in post #15116886
Remember your not shooting at 400mm. You are shooting at 640mm. You could stand outside, turn on live view while you are zoomed in at 640mm and try to keep the camera as steady as possible while looking at live view. Now zoom into 10x on the live view and just go ahead and try to keep whatever is in the box in frame, it's near impossible while hand holding. Zoom to 250mm (which is equal to 400mm on a full frame) and you can see it's a little easier to keep the subject in frame while at 10x in live view.

Shooting at 400mm on a 1.6 crop is VERY hard shooting at 1/250 sec. I know you want to use low ISO, but it's just so hard to get a sharp image at that focal length WITHOUT getting motion blur from hand shake, you have to accept that with this lens. Once you accept this you will enjoy the lens. Basically we are trying to get the same range and quality as a $7000+ lens for $1500. There are very view other options and if you look at the charts and really study all the options out there, the 100-400mm is the supreme option before you make the leap to 300mm f2.8 + primes.

I would honestly go outside with your camera and lens and shoot at 1/250sec, 1/500sec and 1/1000 sec on various subjects. Just go in your back yard or the closest park and find objects that are say 10, 30 and 50 feet away and just take some test shots. Look to see if you can get much sharper images with the faster shutter speeds.

The faster shutter speeds don't work well for what Mike's shooting; he wants prop blur, not prop freeze. It's the combination of panning and low shutter speeds at issue here.

@Mike: Unfortunately, as I mention above, combining panning and low shutter speeds is not something that new hardware is going to solve...however, it has sounded like your hardware may not be behaving itself properly, which should be looked at.

Snydremark wrote in post #15118156
The faster shutter speeds don't work well for what Mike's shooting; he wants prop blur, not prop freeze. It's the combination of panning and low shutter speeds at issue here.

@Mike: Unfortunately, as I mention above, combining panning and low shutter speeds is not something that new hardware is going to solve...however, it has sounded like your hardware may not be behaving itself properly, which should be looked at.

yep that's pretty much the dilemma. the other is that using something like a the 5.6 is suicide out here in the PNW. We're under cloud cover more than anything. As soon as the sun ducks away my 100-400 craps the bed in the worst way and the noise I get on my 7D trying to compensate with ISO is frightening.

Leftcoast_Mike wrote in post #15321642
yep that's pretty much the dilemma. the other is that using something like a the 5.6 is suicide out here in the PNW. We're under cloud cover more than anything. As soon as the sun ducks away my 100-400 craps the bed in the worst way and the noise I get on my 7D trying to compensate with ISO is frightening.

You should ping me sometime, if you're gonna be down south here (in the Seattle area) over a weekend and we can shoot some side by sides with our 7Ds....If the noise is really that bad, it sounds like there might be something off kilter there, too.

I mean, ISO6400 pretty much sucks nuts, except for pretty bright conditions; but below that things ought to be, really, pretty manageable with the 7D and an f/5.6 lens...

Snydremark wrote in post #15322419
You should ping me sometime, if you're gonna be down south here (in the Seattle area) over a weekend and we can shoot some side by sides with our 7Ds....If the noise is really that bad, it sounds like there might be something off kilter there, too.

I mean, ISO6400 pretty much sucks nuts, except for pretty bright conditions; but below that things ought to be, really, pretty manageable with the 7D and an f/5.6 lens...

planning a Friday/Saturday venture back out to Historic Flight Foundation (PAE). I'll definitely let ya know.

What ISO are you talking about...usable ISO in overcast?

I just let go of the 100-400... hated letting the lens go but i need F/2.8 inside.. F/4 max for what we do. I loved the 100-400. Awesome lens. But, it needs shutter speed.. end of discussion. I often shot in TV mode with the 100-400 keeping it above 1/320, unless is was very bright outside. In AV, I bumped the ISO to get shutter speeds over 1/500....super sharp images. I suspect Ed and others are right on the proble you are having. Sounds like i would work on technique for panning and hand holding techniques and i would get that shutter up before i ever gave up on the 100-400. I think thats your problem. the 100-400 worked great on the 7D i had,, but i kept the shutter speed up. try that first

I just got the Sigma 120-300 F/2.8... WOW.. Great lens. going out this week to test servo with it but man it is really awesome so far. Im looking to get another 7D because it gets me in the 670mm FOV @ f/4 club for my eagle and wildlife shooting with a 1.4 TC... Dats some reach baby. Ive never been happy with a 2x TC on any lens.

Leftcoast_Mike wrote in post #15322443
planning a Friday/Saturday venture back out to Historic Flight Foundation (PAE). I'll definitely let ya know.

What ISO are you talking about...usable ISO in overcast?

I shoot up to 3200 in heavy overcast without much pain. And, have occasionally gone to 6400 because I really wanted the shot; and been pleasantly surprised.

ISO 640:

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/snydremark/7648​565108/

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/snydremark/7367​496416/

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/snydremark/7935​116172/

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/snydremark/6597​977801/

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/snydremark/6805​511875/

umphotography wrote in post #15322473
I just got the Sigma 120-300 F/2.8... WOW.. Great lens. going out this week to test servo with it but man it is really awesome so far. Im looking to get another 7D because it gets me in the 670mm FOV @ f/4 club for my eagle and wildlife shooting with a 1.4 TC... Dats some reach baby. Ive never been happy with a 2x TC on any lens.

I've found a lot of glowing recommendations for that lens but none so far with the 1.4 TC. That's good to hear.

Snydremark wrote in post #15322710
I shoot up to 3200 in heavy overcast without much pain. And, have occasionally gone to 6400 because I really wanted the shot; and been pleasantly surprised.

I don't feel there's any noise problems with any of these and I didn't have to do a ton of work with any of them to get them there. I shoot in RAW and turn off every, single in-camera noise reduction and sharpening setting I can find; and handle all of that myself in PP.

I should probably try going higher. I rarely leave ISO 100 and struggle to get anything good when i get to 640+. What noise reduction are you using in post?

Leftcoast_Mike wrote in post #15322871
...

I should probably try going higher. I rarely leave ISO 100 and struggle to get anything good when i get to 640+. What noise reduction are you using in post?

Definitely go higher; I actually prefer the results I get at 640 over what I can get at 100/200. I'm just using the built-in tools in Lightroom 3.6.

Snydremark wrote in post #15322933
Definitely go higher; I actually prefer the results I get at 640 over what I can get at 100/200. I'm just using the built-in tools in Lightroom 3.6.

I gotta get LR. I'm using a relatively good NR plugin for CS5 but people keep saying the LR NR utility is really nice.

Leftcoast_Mike wrote in post #15111170
I'm looking to replace my 100-400. I've rented the new 70-200 f/2.8 IS II but they gave me an older 2x tc and I wasn't that impressed.

So besides that combo, is there anything else?

Leftcoast_Mike wrote in post #15321642
yep that's pretty much the dilemma. the other is that using something like a the 5.6 is suicide out here in the PNW. We're under cloud cover more than anything. As soon as the sun ducks away my 100-400 craps the bed in the worst way and the noise I get on my 7D trying to compensate with ISO is frightening.

Mike, it seems like a no-brainer for you to get the Sigma 120-300 OS. In fact, I am quite surprised that there has not been a lot more discussion of that lens here on this thread. Based on the comments you made, both in your original post and the succeeding post, it seems to be the perfect solution for your needs.

UMPhotography recommended the lens in an above post:

umphotography wrote in post #15322473
I just got the Sigma 120-300 F/2.8... WOW.. Great lens. going out this week to test servo with it but man it is really awesome so far. Im looking to get another 7D because it gets me in the 670mm FOV @ f/4 club for my eagle and wildlife shooting with a 1.4 TC... Dats some reach baby. Ive never been happy with a 2x TC on any lens.

I cannot think of any reason why this wouldn't be the lens you would use to replace your 100-400.
Here's a link to it at B&H:
http://www.bhphotovide​o.com …20_300mm_f_2_8_​EX_DG.html