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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Motorsports Talk 
Thread started 13 Oct 2012 (Saturday) 08:34
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100-400mm and Motorsport

 
ScottyK86
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95 posts
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Oct 13, 2012 08:34 |  #1

Over the past 18 months I have gone from a 350D with a 55-200mm kit lense, to a 5D Mk2 with said lens before finally upgrading to the 100-400mm.

Due to some feedback of my images looking too stationary I lowered the shutter speed from 1/1000 to 1/320 or similar to give them more a sense of speed. The only problem with this is and I don't know if it is my technique but now images are very much hit and miss, especially in bright days. I need to know what I am doing wrong because it is annoying me greatly that some images just aren't focused properly.

IMAGE: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8186/8082543381_7860e56a08_c.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/scottyk86/80825​43381/  (external link)
IMG_5979 (external link) by ScottyK86 (external link), on Flickr

Camera Canon EOS 5D Mark II
Exposure 0.003 sec (1/320)
Aperture f/8.0
Focal Length 400 mm
ISO Speed 100
Exposure Bias 0 EV

IMAGE: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8055/8082540827_645012cf28_c.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/scottyk86/80825​40827/  (external link)
IMG_5791 (external link) by ScottyK86 (external link), on Flickr

Camera Canon EOS 5D Mark II
Exposure 0.003 sec (1/320)
Aperture f/9.0
Focal Length 340 mm
ISO Speed 160
Exposure Bias 0 EV

One that did work out okay...

IMAGE: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8333/8082541987_7d965f20cb_c.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/scottyk86/80825​41987/  (external link)
IMG_6152 (external link) by ScottyK86 (external link), on Flickr

Camera Canon EOS 5D Mark II
Exposure 0.003 sec (1/400)
Aperture f/7.1
Focal Length 400 mm
ISO Speed 100

Scottyk86 on Flickr (external link)

  
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veritasimagerynw
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Oct 13, 2012 11:03 |  #2

Are you panning with these shots? With the faster shutter speed you were using before, since it was "freezing" the motion, panning technique is not as crucial. But when you lower the shutter speed, flaws in panning technique start showing up. Also, are you using AI Servo, and High Burst? These will also help out your "catch" rate.

And also remember that your depth of field with the higher focal lengths will be quite smaller, especially moving from the 200 to the 400.


Kevin
Canon AE-1 Program, Canon A-1, Canon T3i (gripped), Canon 60D (gripped), Various lenses
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ScottyK86
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Oct 14, 2012 03:23 |  #3

Yeah there was panning with these, while using AI servo and high burst, perhaps my panning is not smooth enough. I have just noticed that lowering the shutter speed the out of focus images seems to out number the in focus ones and it is frustrating me....more practice needed no doubt.


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Richard ­ Brewer
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Oct 15, 2012 14:50 |  #4

What mode IS are you using? I tend to find mode 2 works well when the subject is in front of you, a traditional panning shot if you like. For 3/4 panning when it's moving towards you and across you I tend to turn the IS off and usually shoot at 1/320 or slower.


Canon 7D and 30D with grips
Canon IS 100-400L
Canon EF-S17-85 IS
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philwillmedia
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Oct 16, 2012 05:12 |  #5

I don't see too much wrong with these Scotty.

Maybe what you are referring to being your focus problem is actually the parallax effect, which there's nothing you can do about.
It's simply the laws of physics at work where different parts of the car are moving at a different rate to the film/sensor plane during the exposure.
The best explanation of it, with diagrams is here https://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=487139

PS...Just curious - what circuit were these at.
Looks a bit like the PaperClip, aka Queensland Raceway


Regards, Phil
2013/14 CAMS Gold Accredited Photographer | 2010 & 2011 V8 Supercars Aust. Accredited Photographer | 2008, '09, '10 South Aus. Rally Photographer of the Year | Catch Fence Photos - 2009 Photo of the Year (external link)Finallist - 2014 NT Media Awards
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ScottyK86
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Oct 21, 2012 16:27 |  #6

Yeah the paperclip for the Ipswich classic.


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timeasterday
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Oct 22, 2012 10:20 |  #7

Your photos look pretty good to me. I have done a lot of motorsports shooting with the 5DMKII and when you push the shutter speeds slower and slower you'll throw out 90% of your shots. Keep practicing at it. As Phil said the parallax effect will make some of the car out of focus depending on how it's oriented towards you. Sometimes I try to get down to 1/80 or 1/60 and don't get many keepers but I love the look of the few keepers I do get. When it's bright out I use a CPL to keep the aperture from getting too small which helps blur the background (but you have to be careful with rainbow patterns showing up on headlights and plastic windshields).


7DMKII, 5DMKII, Canon 17-40L, Canon 100mm f/2.8 Macro, Canon 70-200mmL f/2.8 II, Sigma 150-600mm f/5-6.3 DG OS HSM Contemporary, Zeiss ZE 50mm Makro Planar, Rokinon 14mm f/2.8, Kenko Pro 300 DG 1.4x TC, Canon 2X III TC, 580EX II x2, YN560, RF603's
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icemonkey
Junior Member
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Location: The rockies
     
Oct 24, 2012 19:26 |  #8

Nice work considering such a slow camera - really very good. Ok some tips. Try and get head on at a corner, you have the pull with the 400 end. As they corner at you the suspension both rises and compresses which you can accentuate by dutching the camera (dutch means tilt and is a very old term and is no doubt forgotten). Get tighter with the frame and a little bit of height (not too much - sometimes just standing) can fill the background with more road helping the bright colour of the cars "pop". Focus on the drivers helmet if you can. see quite how much you can fill the frame with the car without loosing a sense of the event. Shoot manual exposure as well and on sunny days I drop out a1/3 stop for bright cars and add 1/3 for dark cars. All the best.One final thing - if this is where you want to focus your photography, look at picking up a second hand 1 series, the speed will really help and they are getting cheap.




  
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Daship
Senior Member
765 posts
Joined Dec 2010
     
Oct 24, 2012 20:10 |  #9

Try a 7D or 5DIII their auto focus systems are better designed for this type of photography. 5D MII is great, it just isn't aimed at the sports market. I just bought one today :) But I dont intend on doing sports much. If I did I would have bought the MIII or maybe the II and a 7D.

Grab a refurb 7D for $1000 and then you got the best of both worlds.




  
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jdm_cain
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Nov 12, 2012 19:05 |  #10

nice shots!




  
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Heycoop ­ Photography
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Nov 12, 2012 23:31 |  #11

Depending on your focal length you are shooting at, you should really be around the 1/60 to 1/125 mark for panning, unless the cars are up over 170-200 km/h, then maybe 1/125-1/180? What are other peoples thoughts on this. I mainly shoot at 1/60 or 1/90, occasionally 1/45, and normally get about 100 keepers from a single day of shooting. Obviously you would get a lot more keepers with a faster shutter speed, but the sense of speed with slower shutter speeds is a lot greater.


Body: Canon 450D Gripped
Lenses: Canon 70-200 F4 L, Sigma 10-20mm f/4-5.6, 1.4x Tele Converter
Check out my Facebook Page (external link) (dedicated to my racing, not photographing), and give it a like!!

  
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Tessa
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Nov 13, 2012 01:39 as a reply to  @ Heycoop Photography's post |  #12

Choosing a slow enough shutter speed is (at least for me) somewhat tied to what I am shooting.

With rallying, you only have one time to get it right during a stage. Depending on how many stages you can go to during a rally (usually around 4-6), that's how many times you can shoot one car. So I try to get the safe shots in, then play around in later stages if I already have enough good stuff to work with.

With track racing it's much simpler. There is usually a warm-up, qualification and race (or two or even more) for every class, so that means somewhere around hundred or more chances to shoot the same car. That's when I really play with slower shutter speeds :)




  
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Heycoop ­ Photography
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Nov 13, 2012 01:49 |  #13

Tessa wrote in post #15239547 (external link)
Choosing a slow enough shutter speed is (at least for me) somewhat tied to what I am shooting.

With rallying, you only have one time to get it right during a stage. Depending on how many stages you can go to during a rally (usually around 4-6), that's how many times you can shoot one car. So I try to get the safe shots in, then play around in later stages if I already have enough good stuff to work with.

With track racing it's much simpler. There is usually a warm-up, qualification and race (or two or even more) for every class, so that means somewhere around hundred or more chances to shoot the same car. That's when I really play with slower shutter speeds :)

Good point, how low is "low" with circuit racing? Also, what do you shoot at with rallying - I have never shot a rally before, but it looks like pretty awesome fun!


Body: Canon 450D Gripped
Lenses: Canon 70-200 F4 L, Sigma 10-20mm f/4-5.6, 1.4x Tele Converter
Check out my Facebook Page (external link) (dedicated to my racing, not photographing), and give it a like!!

  
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Tessa
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Nov 13, 2012 04:44 |  #14

Heycoop Photography wrote in post #15239556 (external link)
Good point, how low is "low" with circuit racing?

Depending on how fast the cars/bikes are going, somewhere around 1/30 is where it gets really hard for me to pan smooth enough to get usable pictures.

Heycoop Photography wrote in post #15239556 (external link)
Also, what do you shoot at with rallying - I have never shot a rally before, but it looks like pretty awesome fun!

My most used rally lens is 70-200 F/2.8. It's on my camera about 90% of the time, while the other 10% goes mostly to the wide angle (10-22). I rarely need anything longer than 200mm with my 7D, but a 100-400 would be handy at times.

And yes, rallying is fun ;)




  
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100-400mm and Motorsport
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