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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 18 Oct 2012 (Thursday) 04:19
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Do you guys recommend battery packs for speedlites?

 
5W0L3
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Oct 18, 2012 04:19 |  #1

I usually shoot with 2 flashes off camera for a maximum of 5-6 hours at a time (those are the longest events i've done).

Do you guys think its worth investing in battery packs which allow 8 x AA batteries?.. or do you guys think they are usually a waste of money and its better to have just 4 extra AA batteries in the bag and just change them 3-4 hours into the event?

for example the canon CP-E4:

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Worth spending $200 on each one? .. what about the 3rd party flash packs which are much cheaper at about half that price?

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DavidR
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Oct 18, 2012 05:04 |  #2

The battery pack turns the 8-AA into high-voltage enabling the flash to recycle much faster. I use a Quantum Turbo whenever I need the faster recycle and battery capacity, mostly while shooting weddings.


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tongki
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Oct 18, 2012 05:09 |  #3

you got faster recycle time with battery pack,
also probably you're gonna use less battery (even I am not sure about this)

but,
I personally not recommend battery pack that are using AA batteries,
this is an old technology, AA battery is so yesterday,
now you can get better powerhouse like Quantum Turbo (the best one)
or similar like Impact lite trek or Godox Propac

you can save money by not wasting lots of AA battery with that battery pack,
also go lighter, imagine bringing lots of AA and you need to calculate
everytime how much AA you need to put in your bag

another advantage,
replacing 4 AA batteries on the battery slots is not easy and fast,
you need to check polarity, pull out the old batteries,
store the old batteries if it is rechargeable (which I don't want to do this anymore,
parts of using rechargeables that I don't like is collect the old batteries on the field),
using battery pack, just plug it in, turn it on and there you go, simple and fast

also, using eneloop or any rechargeable are $&@/#%,
you need time to put it in charger and using your finger to kick the battery out
the charger, sometimes it hard and break your nails and sometimes too hot,
I don't like this AA rechargeable ideas, been doing that and spent 3 days ahead
to charge all rechargeable on 2 powerex charger (each charge 8 batteries),
I'd rather use AA and throw the battery away and replace with the new battery,
I don't have to think forgot to charge or spent time to recharge and replace the battery
in the charger every 8 hours within 3 days

I use Quantum Turbo 2x2 and I can recharge the battery within 2 hours with double quick charger, they have this feature where you could double the recharging time using 2 adapters


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Quantum Trio x2, T5D-R x1 + FW7Q x1, CoPilot x2, Godox AD-180 x5
Propac PB960 head x12, PB960 battery x10
sorry, no stupid speedlite from Canon !

  
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jmaher
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Oct 18, 2012 08:07 |  #4

I am very happy with the Pixel packs. Inexpensive and have worked great for me. Recycle time is much faster than without a pack.




  
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Mistabernie
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Oct 18, 2012 08:28 |  #5

Well.. first of all, used you can pick up CP-E4s used for about $100, or closer to $150 from B&H. IF you plan on using alot of flash, I think they're great (mine treated me well, I just didn't quite use it enough to justify keeping it).

Secondly, I really don't understand Tongki's bashing of AAs / rechargeable AAs, etc. AA batteries are the native technology for these flashes (and are still required even using an external power source), so using 'old technology' as an argument is pretty silly. Also, not recommending them because they can be difficult to get out of the charger and you may break a nail? If that's not nit-picking or grasping at straws, I'm not sure what is.

Eneloops in my Maha C801D charge in under two hours almost all the time (mostly because I don't end up fully depleting my batteries all the time); this two hour time is using the 'soft charge' feature which is safer for the batteries anyways, so I have no problem the evening before setting up batteries to be charged for events. It's also alot cheaper to pick up three sets of eneloops once than it is to buy sets of new AAs for just about every time you shoot.


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malow
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Oct 18, 2012 08:37 as a reply to  @ Mistabernie's post |  #6

you use flash in high power, lets say, higher than 1/4?

you eventually get "black images" due to recycling speed?

you shoot long events and require battery change on flashes?

if "yes" to any of those questions, i highly recommend a battery pack (i use the Pixel one, works great)


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bobbyz
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Oct 18, 2012 08:49 |  #7

tongki wrote in post #15137427 (external link)
you got faster recycle time with battery pack,
also probably you're gonna use less battery (even I am not sure about this)

but,
I personally not recommend battery pack that are using AA batteries,
this is an old technology, AA battery is so yesterday,
now you can get better powerhouse like Quantum Turbo (the best one)
or similar like Impact lite trek or Godox Propac

you can save money by not wasting lots of AA battery with that battery pack,
also go lighter, imagine bringing lots of AA and you need to calculate
everytime how much AA you need to put in your bag

another advantage,
replacing 4 AA batteries on the battery slots is not easy and fast,
you need to check polarity, pull out the old batteries,
store the old batteries if it is rechargeable (which I don't want to do this anymore,
parts of using rechargeables that I don't like is collect the old batteries on the field),
using battery pack, just plug it in, turn it on and there you go, simple and fast

also, using eneloop or any rechargeable are $&@/#%,
you need time to put it in charger and using your finger to kick the battery out
the charger, sometimes it hard and break your nails and sometimes too hot,
I don't like this AA rechargeable ideas, been doing that and spent 3 days ahead
to charge all rechargeable on 2 powerex charger (each charge 8 batteries),
I'd rather use AA and throw the battery away and replace with the new battery,
I don't have to think forgot to charge or spent time to recharge and replace the battery
in the charger every 8 hours within 3 days

I use Quantum Turbo 2x2 and I can recharge the battery within 2 hours with double quick charger, they have this feature where you could double the recharging time using 2 adapters

Breaking nails :)


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bobbyz
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Oct 18, 2012 08:51 |  #8

cp-e4 is nice. Now pixel packs or others like them are even better as cheaper and would allow working (through slower rate) with 4 batteries.

If you want to buy Quantum Turbo, buy the old model not 2x2 and newer stuff. Check Quatum Thread if you need more info.


Fuji XT-1, 18-55mm
Sony A7rIV, , Tamron 28-200mm, Sigma 40mm f1.4 Art FE, Sony 85mm f1.8 FE, Sigma 105mm f1.4 Art FE
Fuji GFX50s, 23mm f4, 32-64mm, 45mm f2.8, 110mm f2, 120mm f4 macro
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cdifoto
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Oct 18, 2012 09:00 |  #9

Battery packs mean you won't have to change the batteries as often, maybe even not at all. That's enough reason for me to use them.


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Mark1
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Oct 18, 2012 09:07 |  #10

I have one but rarely use it. Most times I need it I have a chance to replace batteries any way so it has kind of been neglected. But I still think they are worth it.


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Whortleberry
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Oct 18, 2012 09:12 |  #11

There are a couple of slightly different approaches to the concept of external power packs. Those which plug into the external power port (as opposed to replacing the flash main cells) work by increasing the voltage up to circa 300v. Most flash units capable of this approach have a cut-out which limits the voltage which can be input in this way (the Canon 580EXII, for example, has a protective cut-out at 340v).

The different approaches are:


  1. Either 6 or 8 AA cells in a single circuit.
  2. 8 cells in 2 seperate circuits or channels (obviously 4 per channel)
  3. High power SLA cell.
  4. High power, industrial size NiMH accumulator(s)
  • Design 1 (Canon CP-E4 and Yongnuo SF-17 / SF-18) provides a basic increase in stored capacity up to the sum of the individual cell's capacity. The drawback is that, as a single circuit they are only as good as the weakest cell in the set - it's either all or nothing.
  • Design 2 (Pixel TD-381) provides two individual channels. Advantage is that if a single cell is defective, there is still a second channel so you do still get a speed advantage. Because there are ony 4 cells per channel, each channel has reduced capacity compared to Design 1. The combined capacity of both channels is the same as Design 1 and the pack can be used, if necessary, with just one channel if required. Greater flexibility than Design 1 but no major advantage other than that.
  • Design 3 (Quantum) is the often best in terms of capacity but suffers the disadvantage of added weight and greater cost. New cells are not as readily available as AAs and may require specialist fitting in due course. They do last a long time though - 10+ years is not uncommon.
  • Design 4 (Godox) is, in some respects, a compromise between Design 1 and Design 3. The cell(s) are more readily changeable than Design 3 but considerably more expensive and less readily available than Designs 1 & 2 (not in your local supermarket!). They tend to be lighter than Design 3 but still noticeably heavier than Designs 1 & 2.
Each style of power pack only supplements the power available for the actual flash, it is still necessary to have cells within the flash unit to power functions like zoom, power setting, ETTL functions, etc. It may not be relevant to your particular use but an external power pack is advantageous if access to the flash unit is limited. If you can't easily get at the flash, say it's up on a balcony or across a busy racetrack, then it's sometimes difficult to simply replace the internal power cells!

My feeling is that Design 1 only adds minimally to ease of use, with the CP-E4 being particularly pricey for what you gain. The circuitry only requires a single cell out of the 6 or 8 to run down (and there is always 1 which empties first) and the pack just becomes dead weight. Design 2 has a built-in fail safe so that when 1 cell goes down you do still get the advantage of faster recycling, albeit slightly more slowly than with both channels. In any set of power cells, there is always one which isn't quite as good as the others and it is that cell which governs the accessibility of the whole circuit. Design 3 provides arguably the best option with high capacity sealed lead acid cell but the lead acid battery does tend to be relatively heavy (by comparison). Design 4, in addition to the characteristics previously mentioned, is available in a truly hideous colour if you want to demonstrate excurciating colour perception to your clients (and black too, for the more staid). Designs 3 & 4 both offer a major benefit if you may change flash brands at some future date, they can be updated simply by purchasing an alternate cable. The other designs tend to be brand-specific.

Since retiring 6 years ago, my needs are less demanding than hitherto but I would still opt for Design 2 as the best compromise, especially within your prescribed financial limits. Charging time with any of the designs isn't really a consideration as rapid chargers are readily available for AA cells - but really fast charging isn't good for any type of accumulator. 2 hours isn't a particularly fast charge for any of the tyoes mentioned here - hence it's not really a consideration. BTW, I find keeping fingernails trimmed obviates any problems getting cells out of chargers.;)

I currently own four Pixel TD-381s (and a TD-382 for Nikon) which have proved exceptional value for money. I wouldn't even bother with a CP-E4, personally.

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cdifoto
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Oct 18, 2012 09:18 |  #12

Screwdrivers can help you pop out those batteries as well.


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5W0L3
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Oct 18, 2012 09:53 |  #13

haha i'l admit that I laughed at breaking nails while taking out batteries from the charger.


Manav
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dave63
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Oct 18, 2012 10:13 |  #14

I hear there are things you can get at the drugstore, called "nail clippers"... they might help with that.



  
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cdifoto
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Oct 18, 2012 10:14 |  #15

dave63 wrote in post #15138254 (external link)
I hear there are things you can get at the drugstore, called "nail clippers"... they might help with that.

I can't fault a girl for not wanting to break or cut her nails just to get batteries out of a charger..


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Do you guys recommend battery packs for speedlites?
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