What got your business going?

Tony_Stark wrote in post #15224508
I really don't mean to get involved in hefty arguments here, but for some reason when GerryDavid said he wanted to work with a car dealership to give some sort of promotion on a "portrait session" I was thinking something along the lines of the client with his newly bought automobile etc. However, when I read that it was a "glamour portrait" and car dealership, does not make sense to me at all. Sure you can associate people who spend a lot on cars on wanting to spend a lot on something of quality, but you can't really group car buyers and people looking to get portraits done in the same basket. Thats just the way I see it. Could be wrong.

I was actually intending it for the past customers from the point the sales person started. It will remind the customer that they are not forgotten, especially if the purchase was from more than a few years ago.

For me its beauty portraits not glamour. I consider glamour to include boudoir which I don't offer. And it would depend on the customer. Preferably to the women that buy cars and to the men that has a wife. No point in giving them to the single men. then again odds are they may have a girl friend that would appreciate the gift, or a woman in the family that may.

And to be a bit random, why does every spell checker show glamour as spelled wrong? It always wants to change it to glamor?

GerryDavid wrote in post #15224541
I was actually intending it for the past customers from the point the sales person started. It will remind the customer that they are not forgotten, especially if the purchase was from more than a few years ago.

For me its beauty portraits not glamour. I consider glamour to include boudoir which I don't offer. And it would depend on the customer. Preferably to the women that buy cars and to the men that has a wife. No point in giving them to the single men. then again odds are they may have a girl friend that would appreciate the gift, or a woman in the family that may.

And to be a bit random, why does every spell checker show glamour as spelled wrong? It always wants to change it to glamor?

My mistake for putting glamour instead of beauty. Being a car guy, I hardly differentiate the other genres of photography

Anyways, like I said, I wouldn't go the route you want, for what you want to achieve. Thats just me though. Even as a past customer from a car dealership, I don't know how I would react to getting a message about promotional beauty shoot from my BMW dealer. To do a shoot with my car yes, but for my family portraits, don't see it.

Tony_Stark wrote in post #15224689
My mistake for putting glamour instead of beauty. Being a car guy, I hardly differentiate the other genres of photography

Anyways, like I said, I wouldn't go the route you want, for what you want to achieve. Thats just me though. Even as a past customer from a car dealership, I don't know how I would react to getting a message about promotional beauty shoot from my BMW dealer. To do a shoot with my car yes, but for my family portraits, don't see it.

Easy mistake, I don't think "beauty" is a real category, I just created it to differentiate it from glamour. Around here when people think glamour they think 80's cheese with huge hair.

I appreciate your feedback from a customers point of view. The dealerships wasn't high on my list of 20 places, I took the opportunity to ask a car sales guy since he was here.

To put a twist on this, and as a joke, as a car guy would you be interested in a beauty portrait of your car with a random model on it?

I haven't read all the details of Gerry's ideas from the beginning but if you're wanting to promote beauty portraits, would a fitness club be more inline with what you're thinking? I know where I go there are certain businesses (photography may be one) that display flyers at a table. A promotion of purchasing a beauty portrait to give to your loved one during the holidays may be something that appeals to the work-out crowd. Just an very quick thought/idea...thought I'd throw it out here.

GerryDavid wrote in post #15224728
Easy mistake, I don't think "beauty" is a real category, I just created it to differentiate it from glamour. Around here when people think glamour they think 80's cheese with huge hair.

I appreciate your feedback from a customers point of view. The dealerships wasn't high on my list of 20 places, I took the opportunity to ask a car sales guy since he was here.

To put a twist on this, and as a joke, as a car guy would you be interested in a beauty portrait of your car with a random model on it?

I like to separate my cars and women I think when a model poses on the car it makes it more cheesy and detracts from the actual subject of the images. Why mix the two when one would over power the other? Why not make two separate images one each showcasing each subject in its best light? I know most may not share that feeling with me, but as a car guy, I just like to have the car in the spot light and show that off. To add more to that, I cringe overtime I see a model sit on a car, lean on a car with her hands, or has her heels/shoes on it. If that was my actual car, nobody would be doing any of that. Give me a photo with a car beautifully captured and give me a gorgeous model on a beach beautifully captured. No mixing of the two.

Tony_Stark wrote in post #15224761
I like to separate my cars and women I think when a model poses on the car it makes it more cheesy and detracts from the actual subject of the images. Why mix the two when one would over power the other? Why not make two separate images one each showcasing each subject in its best light? I know most may not share that feeling with me, but as a car guy, I just like to have the car in the spot light and show that off.

I think it can be done well, but not in a family-friendly way, certainly not as an offer included with the sale of a high-ish end luxury car, and not all women would be able to pull it off. Same with guys.

cdifoto wrote in post #15224765
I think it can be done well, but not in a family-friendly way, certainly not as an offer included with the sale of a high-ish end luxury car, and not all women would be able to pull it off. Same with guys.

I have seen great images of models and cars together, but its very difficult, I would say almost impossible, to make an image where one subject is not over powering another. However, in any case its not my cup of tea

Allen, the gym is on my list of 20, but I think in the 15th position. But I appreciate the tip that they may have a brochure table! To be honest I've never been to the gym so my only experience is what is seen on tv. If I were to step in they probably would just laugh at me I don't look as muscular as I am *not that I am very muscular*.

I actually had an idea a few years ago to team up with a gym to do a promo around new years but its not something I've had time to pursue, and I am not sure how good it is. Since a lot of people have a new years resolution to loose weight they then join a gym in January, the idea is to do a before/after or progression of pictures as they get fit. All but the last portrait will be a simple one shot to show where they were, and then the final would be a real session to show how well they did *hopefully*. The problem with this is the mini ones would be a loss leader because it takes time and no one is going to purchase those except maybe in a composite, even then its doubtful. The point would be for that final portrait session and sales. This would be a prepaid portrait so if they stop going to the gym before they get fit *I think most give up when its a new years resolution* they may just forget the portrait even though its paid for.

cdifoto wrote in post #15224765
I think it can be done well, but not in a family-friendly way, certainly not as an offer included with the sale of a high-ish end luxury car, and not all women would be able to pull it off. Same with guys.

It wasn't a serious suggestion, just trying to lighten things up a bit.

I wasn't thinking of a before and after. BTW, I've worked out for years...(not that it shows. )...There are others that do the same. I was thinking that you want to hit people in areas that might but in sync with the beauty portraits you have to offer. People that care about fitness, someone earlier mentioned a nail salon, Real Estate agents usually have quite the ego...places that attract people that care about image. Offering promotions at those places with holiday, valentine, mother/father day, etc themes may be a place to start. If I was in your position, those would be my first attempts with promotions and discounts. You'd hit a higher volume of potential clients that could refer if they're happy with your work.

Allen K wrote in post #15224831
I wasn't thinking of a before and after. BTW, I've worked out for years...(not that it shows. )...There are others that do the same. I was thinking that you want to hit people in areas that might but in sync with the beauty portraits you have to offer. People that care about fitness, someone earlier mentioned a nail salon, Real Estate agents usually have quite the ego...places that attract people that care about image. Offering promotions at those places with holiday, valentine, mother/father day, etc themes may be a place to start. If I was in your position, those would be my first attempts with promotions and discounts. You'd hit a higher volume of potential clients that could refer if they're happy with your work.

I understand, I was just mentioning an idea I had a while back.

I do think I want to stop giving discounts on portraits though, don't want to be known as a discount photographer. But I don't mind giving a % to a charity.

The gyms in this area are not that large, there's no gold gym or anything like that yet. The one in the city near me looks to be the size of an old blockbuster store that closed down, I'm not sure how many members they may have. They could probably fit 20 people on machines in there at any given time but it might be larger on the inside than it looks. But the next time I'm in the area I'll stop by to see if they mind if I leave some literature behind and see if they would be interested in teaming up.

If you were to do a promotion with a gym on a holiday, what type of promotion would you do?

I honestly don't know off-hand as I was just brain-storming a little. As in my other business, I often don't do "cold call" type marketing but "warm-call" situations. If I was trying to get something off the ground, and as I do have a day job, I'd probably start with acquaintances that I have met, offering a select group an opportunity. I live in California so we have fitness centers on every block , but I do think that at least an advertisement with cards for a holiday beauty portrait as an gift idea for a spouse might be worth a try...I don't know...it's late...I have a stack of work and I want to do to sleep...like I said, just bouncing ideas around. Although I do like Glumpy's ideas…give him a chance, I have no doubt they work for him…and probably me. My problem is that I just need to find the time to implement any idea. One thing I do know that works for me is that marketing takes being personal...friendly...​and caring. I believe you have to sell yourself first (no…not that way). I see women who appear to have successful senior portrait companies...they have a mannerism with high school seniors that I don’t know if I have. I see photographers working the little league scene…I see them print photos and then try to sell them…very impersonal. I never bought them and wondered if their upfront printing costs paid off. I wonder if getting to know a team or several and being a team photographer for the day and making a connection with the parents that might pay in the long run...not only with sports but maybe a family portrait. I went to a friend’s LL playoff game and bought the camera to take some of their kid but wound-up taking the entire team and BS’ing with the parents…they all wanted to see them…so I put them online (watermarked of course) and sold several packages…at a “not bad/hr” wage. Wasn’t even planning on it, I just thought, “God, what would happen if I really tried!”

Kronie wrote in post #15222851
Is this a photography business? WOW....Tell me more. Netting over 100K in your first year, just by shaking hands and showing your work. What are you doing?

I could be wrong, but if he is who I think he is, he found a great niche market in his part of AU with the swim schools. He has great talking skills and got in with the owners/managers of the swim schools and took over the contracts from the previous photographers and word got around and he got all the contracts in his area.

Its a great niche but not every market has the swim schools and only one photographer in each area can do it at a time, and since the owners/managers were willing to switch from one photographer they were loyal to so easily, it could happen again with the next guy that comes around.

Over here it would be the equivalent to the school photography contracts but from my understanding those are very hard to get since those contracts can be worth millions depending on the size of the school contract. More people are aware of this market.

Another market that people have done well in this area is the daycare centers. Its great if you love working with lots of kids.

In terms of Beauty portriats, I cant think of an organization that you can talk to the single person in charge, and instantly get 1000 clients/customers that will all come in for pictures. I would love to find the answer to that! Possibly beauty pageants and get 20 customers, but here there are so many of them and the girls tend to do all of those pageants and each one has a photographer they don't seem to have any more interest in portraits.

The last pageant I photographed I gave the winners in each category a free studio portrait, and the older two winners came in did make a purchase that was descent, but it didn't compare to my usual portraits. But I did have great marketing pictures afterwards.

Allen K wrote in post #15224934
I see them print photos and then try to sell them…very impersonal. I never bought them and wondered if their upfront printing costs paid off.

I think it costs pennies per page by using a continuous ink system (CIS), so they can print a ton and not have to worry about the left overs, although it is bad for the environment. They can have multiple printers setup on site to meet with demand, but this doesn't give you a lot of time to process if you bother to process.

I have considered cis systems in the past but I question their longevity and color accuracy, plus I'm not sure you can get texture and lustre coating from a home/portable setup that a pro lab offers.

Allen K wrote in post #15224934
I wonder if getting to know a team or several and being a team photographer for the day and making a connection with the parents that might pay in the long run...not only with sports but maybe a family portrait. I went to a friend’s LL playoff game and bought the camera to take some of their kid but wound-up taking the entire team and BS’ing with the parents…they all wanted to see them…so I put them online (watermarked of course) and sold several packages…at a “not bad/hr” wage. Wasn’t even planning on it, I just thought, “God, what would happen if I really tried!”

I've heard sports is hard to make money with, and they often have an official photographer that is contracted to be there and its frowned upon to take their sales. Its good to talk to the people in charge first to make sure and if they do have one see how happy they are with them.

This would be a great situation for a green screen and canopy and get some digital files of pro stadiums for backgrounds. I cant remember his name but there's a senior photographer guy here that uses digital backgrounds and he has a very popular stadium backdrop for the highschool football players.

GerryDavid wrote in post #15225022
I think it costs pennies per page by using a continuous ink system (CIS), so they can print a ton and not have to worry about the left overs, They can have multiple printers setup on site to meet with demand, but this doesn't give you a lot of time to process if you bother to process.

Geez, where did you read this or who did you learn that from??
Minus the environmental rubbish that is.

Yeah, they are total and utter crap.
Not for quality orientated artisans like yourself.
You should stick to paying the lab to print your work.

Spot on!
The rule of sales is they buy the person, the product and price.... in that order.

99% of the time, the experience you give the people and the experience they have with you depends on Wether they like your work or not and how much they spend.

How many wedding clients I have had come to me that told me their friend/ relative recently got married and the photos were great and the price was cheap but they didn't like the shooter or he was rude, unfriendly, no fun so they are looking for someone else, I have lost count of.

So many shooters just don't get, It's NOT about the photos.

I see photographers working the little league scene…I see them print photos and then try to sell them…very impersonal.

Whenever I or my crew is selling, it's an absoloute golden rule to greet every client that steps up no matter what you are doing. Even if it's just to say, Hi, I'm sorry, I'll be with you in just one second".
With me it's a rule you just do not break.

When I was IN NZ last week doing a cheer event, I got dragged into a souvineer shop and heard possibly the BEST retail sales assistant I have ever heard in my life. The guy was unreal.
I heard him ask a person browsing if there was anything in particular they were looking for he could show them? The customer gave the standard " Just looking thanks" reply and then this guy got into stride. He said " not a problem, There are 2 of us here that can help you with anything you need, I'm Jeff and Mary is over there. We have some new wood items over to the right of you on the wall and if you'd like to look at anything closer, I can get it down for you to see up close."

The next customer he got the same reply with and said something akin to " Your very welcome to browse as much as you like. I did see you have been looking at the jade carvings. There is some more over at the front of the store you may have missed when you came in, would you like to see them??"
The customer of course did.

As people would come to the counter, he'd excuse himself from the person he was with telling them he'd be right back to assist them further but most of them made their way to the counter with their selections before he got a chance. It was easy to see from what they said and the smiles being exchanged they were very happy shoppers and also impressed with their experience there.

This guy could make a fortune selling S hit sandwiches without the bread if he turned his hand to it.
That was the one souvineer shop we went in that I wasn't in a hurry to get out of and wishing I had my phone with me so I could record some of the gold that was rolling off this guys tongue.

I bet he's the most profitable Souvineer store in Auckland if not all of NZ or the entire pacific region. Of course some of the others may be more concerned about selling Quality souvineers of specific types rather than just making money so that would be be their defense!

I never bought them and wondered if their upfront printing costs paid off. [QUOTE]

It does PROVIDING you have set the rest of your approach up correctly.
Of course it only works on the sell your soul, crap product, volume market which makes evil money.

My default ice breaker is a comment on the weather. It's the best conversation starter in the world I reckon. Everyone knows about the weather no matter what age, demographic, interest or anything else and has an anecdote about it. You can take the conversation anywhere from there.

glumpy wrote in post #15223135
What I'm Doing is Firstly making money,
Secondly , Pi$$ing people off on forums because I'm not doing it the way they think it should be done.

I'll PM you so as not to incur the wrath of the artistic tunnel Visioned.

glumpy, i would really appreciate to recieve a pm about that as well if youre still willing to share.