What got your business going?

I never got my PM. Which only solidifies my opinion that glumpy is full of s**t. He talks big and bold but Gerry Davids post makes more sense than anything else, if in fact glumpy's business is real.

He blindly stumbled into a money making venture and bull sh***ed his way into doing the work.

The reason I believe that glumpy is full of it is this is a thread that talked about how you got you business going. All we have heard is that he netted 100K in less than a year. (you do the math there) is a digital photographer but has no web presence or any online nothing. We hear about how he is evolving his game for maximum profits but his game remains a complete mystery....

I have just been in business long enough to recognize the bull s****ters....

....BUT certainly prove me wrong glumpy and enlighten us as to how you did it. Whats your story, how did you get there. Not just that you talk the talk and walk the walk and are maximizing productivity and profits for future key demographics. Inquiring minds want to know....

Personally I started out as a fine art and landscape photographer, sending work to editors, I am regularly published in a number of magazines, that brought lots of freelance work, which got me into some newspapers, that brought some word of mouth, now I am doing a mix or portraits, gallery shows and some freelance photojournalism with an occasional event or product shoot here and there. Its really a little bit of everything... Marketing is word of mouth, website, local ads, flyers, a mix of different things.

Photography is NOT main source of income. Maybe 35%....

I sent a PM as well and haven't received anything. Nothing but hot air... I'm hoping to end the argument here and continue on with the topic. I did see a couple people chime in relating to the topic but they might have gotten buried by the ongoing argument.

Well guys, I did receive his email...he does have a plan. As a business, it sounds like a good one. Honestly, Gerry's plan sounds more like a shotgun approach...I will say that some of these threads are starting to blend together so I don't know if I have Gerry's plan correct. But I will say that Glumpy DOES have a plan but with the contentious nature of these threads, I'd pick and choose who I send PM's to, also.

Whether you like Gerry's plan or something else, instead of spending countless hours on these threads having an argument...have a discussion. Its easy to be contentious on the internet vs being respectful in person...one can also choose to be respectful on the internet. I believe I was, and now I have both plans. Maybe not 100%, but I think I'd do something closer to Glumpy's plan when I make the move from my day job. In the meantime, I will discuss with other forumites who wish to share their experiences so that I can gain the best possible information to make the best possible decision in the future.

You're so right. People tend to jump to conclusions regarding other peoples comments and whatnot on these forums. It's easy to take things out of context and fling it around like it was actually said.

Honestly, I would like to know how he does it because if it seems simple enough for me to do I would probably give it a try myself. But I would never belittle a person who has a certain way of running their business. If it works then great. If not then he/she should look for another way to do what they do. Which is part of the reason why I started this thread. It's interesting to see how people got their start and how they make it work.

Allen K wrote in post #15232865
Well guys, I did receive his email...he does have a plan. As a business, it sounds like a good one. Honestly, Gerry's plan sounds more like a shotgun approach...I will say that some of these threads are starting to blend together so I don't know if I have Gerry's plan correct. But I will say that Glumpy DOES have a plan but with the contentious nature of these threads, I'd pick and choose who I send PM's to, also.

Whether you like Gerry's plan or something else, instead of spending countless hours on these threads having an argument...have a discussion. Its easy to be contentious on the internet vs being respectful in person...one can also choose to be respectful on the internet. I believe I was, and now I have both plans. Maybe not 100%, but I think I'd do something closer to Glumpy's plan when I make the move from my day job. In the meantime, I will discuss with other forumites who wish to share their experiences so that I can gain the best possible information to make the best possible decision in the future.

Sounds to me like he should do seminars. He's good at sounding like an expert without really saying anything.

Honestly, anyone can talk. Having a plan that sounds good isn't the same as executing one. More power to him though. My only real contention is if someone just wants to be a CEO, they can do that selling anything. One could be hocking Chinese imports and the end result is the same...lots of money but no soul.

The question really becomes do you JUST want to make a lot of money or do you want to make money creating great photographs?

For me personally, it's about making money doing what I love...creating photographs. If I'm just a CEO who never hits the ground with my camera anymore and has minimum wage employees hocking cheap snaps on my behalf, I'm no better than the national photo mill. That's not just something I could be proud of at the end of the day.

Don't get me wrong, I love money. We all love money. That's why we don't just give away our stuff. However, I still care too much about what I produce to let it turn corporate.

(I went back and read through this post before posting...I'm all over the place and appear to ramble. Sorry about that )

Cdifoto, Then don't let it "turn corporate". Anyone can make their business as large as they want it to be. What one person does (Glumpy) might not fit everyone's business model. But, barring exceptions, most won't be making the "big bucks" doing high-end work. If that's what one chooses then they need to accept what they CAN do. I won't belittle anyone's business model...some are for me, some aren't. Even the national photo mills fill a niche...they (at least my experience) produce a massed acceptable product for that market. Even the youth sports scenarios...parents want to see their little kid holding a bat with a team logo behind...THAT's what they WANT. They don't want or need a high-end portrait. My kids' rooms are FILLED with little plaques with their U-8 soccer team photos. I cherish those photos and they are great memories for them. Do I knock the photo companies that make that happen? NO. They fill a niche and they do a fine job for their market.

In my business...I put out one of the most thoroughly written and documented reports in my market...and I'm personable to my clients and easy to get along with. I CHOOSE to do no less. I have a VERY small cliental. I make a higher per job wage then most in my field...but there is a segment of my market that produces less of a product in a quick time frame at a cheaper price. So do I **** about and turn my nose up at their work? OF COURSE I DO!!! Do I have room to ****? No. Because I CHOSE not to be part of that…They are filling a need AND their accounts to put food on their family's table. I have a two income household and can afford to market myself to the higher-end. My gross income will NOT exceed theirs. But I've come to accept that this has been my choice.

On a side note, it's funny...In my own industry which is made up of 98% one-man independent operations, you know who my own worst enemy is...not my clients, but my peers. We constantly argue about the proper way to do our jobs to the point of having no cohesive force within our industry to fight government regs and client manipulation. I don't know how that applies here...just that it was an interesting point to see photographer complain about other photographers.

And I'm sorry, Glumpy is not just talking. You can believe whatever you want. In his higher volume work, it does sound like he has a plan. (And as I believe I said earlier...I wouldn't put it out there for everyone to see...he has no obligation to and it would only cause this thread to continue for eternity with people picking it apart in pointless ways) I very likely will take what I can use from it when that time comes for me to enter this type of business. It's just information and it's "all good"…and BTW Glumpy, thank you for sharing it with me.

"Honestly, anyone can talk. Having a plan that sounds good isn't the same as executing one. More power to him though. My only real contention is if someone just wants to be a CEO, they can do that selling anything. One could be hocking Chinese imports and the end result is the same...lots of money but no soul." - Pretty disingenuous and, I feel, a cheap shot.

Every business out there has levels and these levels fill a particular market. The husband/wife that open a gift shop in a tourist town selling cheap refrigerator magnets...do they not have "soul". They are filling a market for people who want inexpensive mementos of a trip. What's wrong with that? I don't curse the couple...it might not be something I'd do or want to buy, but they seem to be filling a niche over the art gallery hocking expensive photos in the $1,000's that I could never afford. I could say that those individuals are the real "Rip-off" artists...but I don't. I just don't have a lot of $1,000 images in my home.

I really don't know how this became a pissing match between some. The first 4-5 posts in this thread all mentioned referral and getting yourself out there to the market you want to exploit...yes I said "exploit". Whether you believe it or not, that's what we are ALL doing in business.

Gerry wants to market his business to "Who: my target market is ladies over 21 that have a higher than average income and values quality items.". He needs to exploit that market...this is, after all, a thread on "Business". But comments like "I think what irritates you is I would rather do quality over quantity.." and the like do nothing to extract information from users of this forum.

Glumpy fought back...and he's competing in his niche. People asked how to make money. Glumpy gave a few tips of how he does it in his market. Don't attack the market because it's not yours. I guess we could say that the Hyundai and the Kias of the world are all demonized whores because we should all be buying Mercedes and BMW's (Actually, an Aston if I had the means). That was obviously touch-n-cheek and I don't mean to ruffle feathers here. But it IS all relative to what you want and your client wants in business & life.

Put out the better product...or don't. Be the business you want to me. My only tip...you need to get out there and sell your personality and yourself...hit your known clients, ask them for referrals, target direct market that YOU want to work in. Sorry Gerry, I also don't believe that offering portrait discounts at a car dealership (if I understood right) would be your best use of time (please don't take that for anything other than my honest suggestion/opinion). There are other types or business that your model would work better in…I'd hit those hard first.

*Camera Man: "I started with word of mouth. Now people that know others refer them to my web site."

*JacobPhoto: "Most of my clients were people I literally bumped into shooting alongside at events or introduced to via other contacts"

*Foodguy: "Knocking on the doors of all the advertising agencies in town and showing a portfolio"

*ATP: " I would go to Hooters, WingHouse, etc (similar establishments)...and I would pick out the hottest waitress there. Id offer a free shoot. Give her the edited photos (2/3), she's show her co-workers and BAAAAMMMM...My phone is ringing..LOL.."

*Behindtheglass: "I just kept showing people my work."

*Glumpy: "Nothing but nothing beats the old concept of B2B. Belly to belly with your clients."

I could probably go on…Everyone catching a theme here? I truly believe that's what it will take for any of us. If you can’t do that…well, I’d be at a loss to give you further advice.

glumpy wrote in post #15233662
Obviously You haven't been in business as long as you think.

Sit down, think hard and see if you can work out why I didn't waste my time emailing you.

Just a masters in it, and I own and run two successful businesses, plus my full-time job as a credit manager for a worldwide brand.

My guess is that you thought I would re-post it in this thread. Which I wouldn't do, but at this point honestly it wouldn't matter what you told me because you either stumbled into something or you BS.

I had friend growing up named Fred. He would talk and talk and talk. He is doing this and this and had done that and on and on. Total BS. The few times I actually saw him "in action" it was clear he too was BS. We used to call him Fred the Fraud.

Kronie,

Then for the point of this thread, who cares if he's BSing or not?

You say that you have an MBA...great. Do the few tips that Glumpy gave in the beginning of this thread offer ANY usefulness to anyone? "get out there and pound the flesh" type comments..."come up with a new plan if the old one ain't working". Sometimes, someone just needs to be told this to strike a chord. Simple things, but you have to get the recipient to listen to that much before you give any further detail.

These are things that, those of us in business, and I'm assuming you too, know well. If not, I'd ask your University for your money back. I come from the assumption that Glumpy's plan must work for him. To call him a liar without striking a rapport and listening to want he had to offer is your loss. You can think what you want...it's your loss because even if his info doesn't work for you, you'll never know because of a silly little internet attack behind your computer. God people...grow up! And how about reading a post word for word with absolutely no preconceived judgment/emotion attached. Sometimes you'll learn that the writer meant no insult of the sort but that it was only read into it by the reader.

Instead, it degradates to this...something that benefits no one, but for me...is pure entertainment when I should actually be getting some work done

CameraMan wrote in post #15232434
I sent a PM as well and haven't received anything. Nothing but hot air... I'm hoping to end the argument here and continue on with the topic. I did see a couple people chime in relating to the topic but they might have gotten buried by the ongoing argument.

I am Sincerely sorry to derail your thread with pointless arguments.
That was not my intention and clearly I went about trying to pass on advise and suggestions the wrong way.
I will try to learn and remember not to react and make the same mistakes again.

I'll stay out of this thread or another if you want to start afresh and hopefully those with ideas and qualifications can put forward useful information for all.

My apologies once again.

I did email glumpy and I did received a very large and detailed pm explaining how he got started, a lot of good info to digest, I'm currently brainstorming on his ideas and how I can accommodate those in my current market.

I appreciate his honesty, straight forward thinking and approach, not many here share that amount of info, to me it seams a lot of people here hold back a lot, and have a very immature and selfish attitude, almost like the jealous boyfriend that is always in fear to lose his girl over the guy next door.

Allen K wrote in post #15233821
Kronie,

Then for the point of this thread, who cares if he's BSing or not?

You say that you have an MBA...great. Do the few tips that Glumpy gave in the beginning of this thread offer ANY usefulness to anyone? "get out there and pound the flesh" type comments..."come up with a new plan if the old one ain't working". Sometimes, someone just needs to be told this to strike a chord. Simple things, but you have to get the recipient to listen to that much before you give any further detail.

I care if he is BSing because it devalues what he says. Look I am not singling glumpy out, I would call anyone out that that says he is pulling 100K net in under a year, (first year) and then promises to share it and doesn't. And also if its true, its the biggest secret in the world that every photographer should know about. It should be a sticky. Yes, some of the advice he posted earlier was spot on, absolutely.

Allen K wrote in post #15233821
These are things that, those of us in business, and I'm assuming you too, know well. If not, I'd ask your University for your money back. I come from the assumption that Glumpy's plan must work for him. To call him a liar without striking a rapport and listening to want he had to offer is your loss. You can think what you want...it's your loss because even if his info doesn't work for you, you'll never know because of a silly little internet attack behind your computer. God people...grow up! And how about reading a post word for word with absolutely no preconceived judgment/emotion attached. Sometimes you'll learn that the writer meant no insult of the sort but that it was only read into it by the reader.

Instead, it degradates to this...something that benefits no one, but for me...is pure entertainment when I should actually be getting some work done

No, its not my loss. I have a business plan and model that works perfect for me. The point of this thread was to share what works for you and how your doing it. And maybe even what doesn't work for you? I didn't come on the board and say that I was banking with my new business and doing it right and have at all figured out.......and then not share it with the group. I listened to what he had to offer and all I heard were crickets....

I would still love to hear about it....open invitation....

Kronie,
(and this is meant with all respect), Glumpy has been kind enough to show me his plan in detail. Rest assured with his setup (and I've seen these setups in my locale and the clients purchasing hand over fist), I have no doubt about his claims. We've corresponded on PM and has given me detail of what has, and has not worked for him.

Now (and this part has nothing to do with business), what you must understand is that this internet stuff...sucks for getting true ideas. My philosphy is to ask a question and sit back and weed through the garbage and take away the good stuff...and there is SO MUCH GARBAGE! If you asked me for my plan and, over the net, I gave you the jist of it and then you said "That's terrible, you stink for doing it and I'd never do that!" You've just lost me...I no longer have ANYTHING that I would or be required to give you...you've burned your bridge. I no longer care about you nor am I obligated in ANY WAY to continue a conversation. Some people think that someone else owes them something. Glumpy didn't own me anything. I politely asked, he gave. If I was Glumpy, you burned your bridge that MINUTE an attitude was shown...and that fact is, I have EVERY right to feel that way and you have NONE.

There is a difference between "Hey dude, sounds cool. Why don't you share the details with me off-line" VS "Hey Dude, I think your wrong and full of BS. You'd better put up or shut up". If you don't think that's what's been going on, well again, I can't help you. It doesn't just go for this thread, it's for most. I use them for entertainment purposes as well as getting as much info as I can. As my 88 year old mother would say "You don't look a gift-horse in the mouth" (I know what it means but never figured how it was derived).

Anyway, I HOPE I'm not telling you anything you don't already realize.

If you have a business plan you're happy with in place then what's the
problem. Glumpy was offering his offline. He's an ambitious guy who is way over my ability (and again, I have not doubts of his success) in what he's doing. He offered me a suggestion of how I might be able to increase my POC sales at the minimal level I'm currently at. It really was simple...I just needed someone to offer the suggestion and I'll need to take a little time to implement it. Now, why would I offer that suggestion in this thread to anyone knowing that from some I'll get "Well, I Don't sacrifice quality over quantity" or "I'd never go corporate" (whatever that means?) when, really, no quality is being sacrifice for that market...and that's a cop-out stance for shutting someone down on the internet that doing more business than the other.

I mean with the antagonistic nature of some of your posts and then the "I would still love to hear about it....open invitation...." I'd ignore that also. No disrespect, just the fact. Instead of the initial challenge to him on line, you might have politely asked him...

Please understand no one owes anyone anything on the net. If a great discussion is underway and people like to share, then great. The minute it turn antagonistic, they can go pound sand. I hope we all understand that.

You "heard only crickets" because the wolves had surrounded you. I had no such threats and heard nothing but the wildlife.

Allen, I am not sure how you became glumpy's spokesperson but more power to you. I hope you put his plan to good use and net your 100K.