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Thread started 29 Oct 2012 (Monday) 20:20
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Do most of you cover travel expenses?

 
Ledrak
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Oct 29, 2012 20:20 |  #1

For those of you who shoot models, particularly ones that have to travel to get to you, do you typically pay for their travel expenses?

I ask this because I've always had an unwritten rule that I never pay for a models travel expenses. Whatever our deal is for the compensation on the shoot, that's what they receive and anything extra (such as travel, lodging, etc) is handled on their own accord.

This method has served me well thus far. However, I'm now considering making an exception, which has me wondering if I need to look at changing my policy. So I'd like to hear some input from others on this matter.




  
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JacobPhoto
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Oct 29, 2012 21:55 |  #2

The only situation where I would pay for travel expenses for a model is if I had a client who was paying me to produce the shoot, and the premium they were paying me was worth me fronting the money.

For any private shoot, I would never consider paying any travel expenses for a model or talent.


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ssim
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Oct 29, 2012 22:06 |  #3

So do you charge mileage to your clients if you have to travel to a shoot, expect your customer to pay for your hotels. We (photographers collectively) complain that we are being nickel and dimed by our customers but yet many seem to want to do that to those that we deal with. I charge for expenses and I also pay for expenses on anything that anyone involved in a shoot has to incur. Any expenses that I incur to others is ultimately paid by the client so as long as they are on board it is the right thing to do. I suppose one could still charge the client and cheap out on the hired help but that is something that I wouldn't do. I would think that you would get a bad reputation with models if you asked them to pay for their own hotels, meals, etc and all you were paying them was their normal rates.


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JacobPhoto
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Oct 30, 2012 01:12 |  #4

I think there's a difference between paying my own expenses and paying the expenses of a model or talent.

I've paid my own expenses before. I've never paid for the expenses for a model or talent.


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CraigPatterson
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Oct 30, 2012 08:04 |  #5

I'm totally on ssim's side here. Even though we might often think it's not our responsibility, that thought goes right out the window when we bill someone else for our own expenses. If you're hiring the model, you need to pay their expenses, if you would charge your own client for travel expenses. If you would just include it in your own fee for another client, then it's reasonable to let the model know that all expenses should be included in their fee to you.


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RDKirk
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Oct 30, 2012 09:02 as a reply to  @ CraigPatterson's post |  #6

I ask this because I've always had an unwritten rule that I never pay for a models travel expenses. Whatever our deal is for the compensation on the shoot, that's what they receive and anything extra (such as travel, lodging, etc) is handled on their own accord.

Point: "Whatever our deal is for the compensation...."

Let's not forget that the contract rules. The expectation of any enforceable contract is that each party finds the terms acceptable. If the model is willing to pay her own expenses, the compensation is presumably worth it; the same is presumed true of the photographer hired by a client.

I think there is also some confusion going on here of private sessions with commercial sessions.


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CraigPatterson
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Oct 30, 2012 09:38 |  #7

RDKirk wrote in post #15186162 (external link)
I think there is also some confusion going on here of private sessions with commercial sessions.

Can you please expand on the difference, in this particular context?


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RDKirk
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Oct 30, 2012 09:46 |  #8

CraigPatterson wrote in post #15186278 (external link)
Can you please expand on the difference, in this particular context?

I'll just ask this question: Is there anyone here who expects to do a commercial job that--one way or another--does not cover expenses+salary of everyone involved?

Is this discussion about anything more than whether covering that total sum is a matter of itemization verus flat fee?


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Oct 30, 2012 10:14 |  #9

JacobPhoto wrote in post #15185321 (external link)
I think there's a difference between paying my own expenses and paying the expenses of a model or talent.

I've paid my own expenses before. I've never paid for the expenses for a model or talent.

same


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CraigPatterson
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Oct 30, 2012 10:48 |  #10

RDKirk wrote in post #15186299 (external link)
Is this discussion about anything more than whether covering that total sum is a matter of itemization verus flat fee?

I didn't think the question was about anything more than that. So why would a difference between private and commercial be a factor in this instance?


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RDKirk
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Oct 30, 2012 10:57 |  #11

CraigPatterson wrote in post #15186526 (external link)
I didn't think the question was about anything more than that. So why would a difference between private and commercial be a factor in this instance?

Maybe there is no confusion.

But if not, I don't understand why you took "sides."


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CraigPatterson
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Oct 30, 2012 11:05 |  #12

RDKirk wrote in post #15186570 (external link)
But if not, I don't understand why you took "sides."

I didn't take sides on commercial vs. private, I took sides on being consistent between how one would bill their clients vs. how they would expect to be billed by a model. My side being that both bill pipelines should look the same.


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RDKirk
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Oct 30, 2012 11:31 |  #13

They might not look the same. A client might prefer a flat fee or an itemized one. The client might also prefer to be billed completely separately for sub-contracted talent such as models, stylists, and makup artists, perhaps even photo assistance. Or not. That would be up to the client how he wants to do his book keeping.

OTOH, it's just as much up to the photographer if that's who is doing the hiring and paying of subcontracted talent. If the photographer prefers to pay a flat fee with the talent taking expenses from that, there is nothing morally deficient about that method of book keeping...because that's all it is, a method of book keeping.


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Ledrak
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Oct 30, 2012 13:13 |  #14

JacobPhoto wrote in post #15185321 (external link)
I think there's a difference between paying my own expenses and paying the expenses of a model or talent.

I've paid my own expenses before. I've never paid for the expenses for a model or talent.

That's sort of the way I see it too. Plus, if you're paying for a model's travel, where does it start and where does it end? If a model has to drive an hour to reach a shoot location do you pay that expense too? You start paying one thing and before you know it you're paying gas, rental car, food, taxis, ect. I once had a model come to a shoot where she got paid $1000 and still had the nerve to ask for $20 cab fare back home!!




  
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mikeinctown
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Oct 30, 2012 13:25 as a reply to  @ Ledrak's post |  #15

CraigPatterson wrote in post #15185993 (external link)
I'm totally on ssim's side here. Even though we might often think it's not our responsibility, that thought goes right out the window when we bill someone else for our own expenses. If you're hiring the model, you need to pay their expenses, if you would charge your own client for travel expenses. If you would just include it in your own fee for another client, then it's reasonable to let the model know that all expenses should be included in their fee to you.

RDKirk wrote in post #15186162 (external link)
Point: "Whatever our deal is for the compensation...."

Let's not forget that the contract rules. The expectation of any enforceable contract is that each party finds the terms acceptable. If the model is willing to pay her own expenses, the compensation is presumably worth it; the same is presumed true of the photographer hired by a client.

I think there is also some confusion going on here of private sessions with commercial sessions.

I'd agree with these two posts. If the model accepts the negotiated rate/contract then the travel costs and time should already be included in their rate or it should be spelled out in the contract as an extra. if nothing is mentioned then I wouldn't feel bad for not giving anything at all or anything extra.




  
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Do most of you cover travel expenses?
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