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Thread started 31 Oct 2012 (Wednesday) 08:50
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Anyone "upgrade" from 1DM3 to 5DM3 vs 1DM4?

 
convergent
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Oct 31, 2012 08:50 |  #1

I have been shooting with a 1DM3 since they were announced, having upgrade from the 1DM2 and 1DM2N in the past. Prior to that, I shot Nikon, last of which being the D2H. I do a lot of high school sports in poorly lit gyms, and was thinking about upgrading to a 1DM4... in fact I've found one I was talking to the seller about last night. Then I started doing a little research, and now I'm thinking I'll be happier with the 5DM3.

This may seem odd for someone that shoots sports, but bare with me. I am mostly shooting now for pleasure, so its not as important any more that I get a lot of shots of every player in every game. I am taking pictures usually of the same teams over and over, so plenty of opportunities. I hardly ever "pray and spray", and in particular with volleyball its pointless. When I learned that the AF engine in the 5DM3 is the same as the 1DX, that along with the high ISO capability are what pulled me in. I have NEVER been happy with any of the Canon bodies' autofocus compared to the old Nikon D2H, for tracking action shots. The 1DM3 was the best so far for me, but from what I've read of the 1DX, everyone seems to think Canon has caught up with Nikon, and I'd like to experience that. I think to me, the accuracy of tracking outweighs the fps because I've lost a lot more captures due to oof shots, than due to fps. Usually I depend on my timing to get the action, particularly in volleyball which is what I've been shooting mostly.

The other big thing I'm trying to solve is that I almost always shoot with primes, which is a bit of a pain. For volleyball, I'm hauling a 200mm f/1.8, 135 f/2, 85 f/1.8, a few other wides, and a 70-200 f/2.8 on the off chance that its bright enough to use. I'm almost always at f/2, which is a very narrow depth of field, and doesn't allow the offense and defense players to both be in the focus plane. I usually shoot ISO 3200 with the 1DM3 to get enough shutter speed at f/2. I'd like to be able to shoot at f/2.8 and just use my 70-200, and have the luxury of also using the 24-70 sometimes.

I have always loved the 1.3 crop factor. I have only owned one full frame, and that was the original 5D. I got rid of it because I rarely ever used it. I also have a 1.6 crop body, that I also rarely use for sports, but it does the job when I do. I just prefer the 1 series to shoot with... its heavier and more responsive. I have thought long and hard about the full frame vs. 1.3. The extra megapixels offsets it so its roughly the same after crop, and I usually crop everything shooting with primes. However, my shots are often too tight for what I really wanted... no zoom. But I've always been of the opinion that trying to offset with megapixels is not comparable because the larger image in the cropped sensor viewfinder is going to track better than a much smaller target with full frame. I'm on the fence on that one, but the AF engine in the 5DMIII I believe is a lot better than the 1DM4, and definitely way better than my 1DM3.

Decisions, decisions! I can get a used 1DM4 for $3K, or a new 5DM3 for $3K, then have to buy the grip, more batteries, etc.. To me they are kind of a wash I guess.

Has anyone else upgraded from the 1DM3 to a 5DM3 and liked the move? What about vs. going to the 1DM4. What I really want is a similar experience to the 1DM3 feel, but to get a big boost in high ISO and AF performance. Those two things are the most important to me. I'd give up fps and the 1.3 crop. Thoughts?


Mike
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lannes
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Oct 31, 2012 09:09 |  #2

Here is an interesting comparison

http://www.dougbrownph​otography.com …i-vs-1d-mark-iv-high-iso/ (external link)


1Dx, 1DM4, 5DM2, 7D, EOS-M, 8-15L, 17-40L, 24 TSE II, 24-105L, 50L, 85L II, 100L, 135L, 200L f/2.8, 300L f/4, 70-200L II, 70-300L, 400Lf/5.6

  
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Oct 31, 2012 09:27 |  #3

That is interesting. I figured they were pretty close. I wish he had continued the analysis on the AF engine. I have done some bird shooting, and while it is action... it is also pretty different from sports. There is a difference also in how the high ISO works out in gym lighting vs. just "dark" consistent lighting. Thanks for sharing the link.


Mike
R6 II - RF 100-500L f/4.5-7.1 IS - EF 17-40L f/4 - 24-70L f/2.8 II - 70-200L f/2.8 IS II -
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drPheta
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Oct 31, 2012 09:35 |  #4

I used to have a 1D MKIII. There is something to be said about shooting with a 1D series body, and the AF (save for the initial issues) was phenomenal on the 1D MKIII. Then, I sold it to play with Full Frame on the 5D MKII. Again, there is something to be said about shooting FF. Still, as wonderful as FF was, I could never get over the AF system of the 5D II. I sold it, and waited for the 5D III and see what the AF system would be like. It's been a long time waiting for me to find something that I was happy with, but the 5D III fits that bill

The new AF on the 5D III is phenomenal. Changing AF points is quick, there are plenty of cross type points, and the tracking in AI-Servo with the 5D III (IMO) is better than the 1D III.

If you're buying used anyway, see if you can pick up a used 5D III for less than what the sale price of a new one would be. I've never used the 1D MK IV, but the 5D III certainly does not have me lusting for one.

PS, another reason why selling the 1D was easy for me was size and weight. Yes, that build is awesome, but it was a pain to pack it and bring it everywhere. The 5D isn't too big, and it produces outstanding photos with an excellent AF system.



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Oct 31, 2012 10:13 as a reply to  @ drPheta's post |  #5

I moved from the 1D III to the 1D IV and now use both the IV and the X for volleyball. The IV is a definite improvement over the III in AF, ISO, and resolution. Last week, in a state championship volleyball tournament, I used the IV for long range super-telephoto shots and paired the X to a 70-200 for close action. Both bodies are terrific and can do a good job for volleyball.

Phil Zivnuska

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svassh
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Oct 31, 2012 10:20 |  #6

I think the 1D III and 5D III make a great combination. I use the 1D III when I know I will be shooting a ton of pictures and don't want to process 600+ images at 24MB each. I love the 5D III for everything else and will use it for sports when shooting in poor lighting.


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Oct 31, 2012 10:29 |  #7

svassh wrote in post #15190524 (external link)
I think the 1D III and 5D III make a great combination. I use the 1D III when I know I will be shooting a ton of pictures and don't want to process 600+ images at 24MB each. I love the 5D III for everything else and will use it for sports when shooting in poor lighting.

Couldn't you just use mRaw or sRaw on a 5D3 for that purpose??


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Oct 31, 2012 10:48 |  #8

Thanks for the input. I have a feeling that there isn't a bad decision here. My other body right now is a lowly 50D. If I get the 5DMIII, I may replace the 50D with a 7D and sell the 1DM3. That would pain me, because I'd not have a 1 series body any more. But, I parted with my 400 f/2.8 and survived. :(


Mike
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Oct 31, 2012 10:56 |  #9

You're right. There is no bad choice in this one. You will miss the 1D initially, because I remember I constantly compared everything to it. However, if you do happen to go the 5D III route the performance of this is like a smaller, better 1D.

Again, I've never used the MK IV or the X, but having owned the 40D, 60D, 1D MKIII, 5DII, and now 5DIII I can safely say that I certainly don't miss the 1D series body.

One thing I forgot to point out is (and I'm not sure if it matters) the batteries. I benefit from the 60D and 5D III having the same batteries. So, you'll have to buy new batteries if you switch to the 5D.



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LPMM
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Oct 31, 2012 12:03 |  #10

convergent wrote in post #15190241 (external link)
What I really want is a similar experience to the 1DM3 feel, but to get a big boost in high ISO and AF performance. Those two things are the most important to me. I'd give up fps and the 1.3 crop. Thoughts?

I shoot indoor swimming and the lighting conditions are terrible, much like you and the gym, wide open, high ISO, etc... I faced the same choice as you and I was struggling between getting the 1D4 or the 5D3, and as others said there is no bad choice between the two. Then last week, Adorama had a great deal on the 5D3 and it was enough to sway me. I'll probably initially miss the crop factor, but I am sure that the 5DIII will do everything I need it to do and much more.

Check this out, not sports related but pretty cool night shooting comparison (external link) between 1Dx, 5D3, 1D4, and 5D2


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Oct 31, 2012 12:27 |  #11

Interesting link. Comparing high ISO is always difficult because different approaches yield very different results. Most of the camera reviews do it in controlled lighting, where the output is very different from gym lighting. And doing it for night shots is also very different, probably because it is much darker, much more consistent, and at much slower shutter speeds. I'm not drawing a lot of conclusions other than the "no bad decision" idea.

I used to do youth sports shooting as a business and had a lot of gear. The name of the game there was to get a lot of good images of all the kids. I think that since I'm doing it more as a hobby now, I am leaning toward the 5DM3. I'm thinking that as an all around camera, I'll use it more (beyond sports) and enjoy it more. And I'm digging your list of equipment (LPMM). I have had such a big bag of gear for so long. It would be great to just deal with a few f/2.8 L zooms and a long lens.


Mike
R6 II - RF 100-500L f/4.5-7.1 IS - EF 17-40L f/4 - 24-70L f/2.8 II - 70-200L f/2.8 IS II -
135L f/2 - 100 f/2.8 Macro - Siggy 15 f/2.8 Fisheye - RF TC1.4 - EF TC1.4 II - TC2 III - (2) 600EX-RT - ST-E3-RT

  
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Oct 31, 2012 14:07 |  #12

convergent wrote in post #15191091 (external link)
Interesting link. I'm not drawing a lot of conclusions other than the "no bad decision" idea.

Exactly, besides the few cool pictures it was meant to show that either choice would be a good choice

convergent wrote in post #15191091 (external link)
I used to do youth sports shooting as a business and had a lot of gear. The name of the game there was to get a lot of good images of all the kids. I think that since I'm doing it more as a hobby now, I am leaning toward the 5DM3. I'm thinking that as an all around camera, I'll use it more (beyond sports) and enjoy it more. And I'm digging your list of equipment (LPMM). I have had such a big bag of gear for so long. It would be great to just deal with a few f/2.8 L zooms and a long lens.

I shoot as a hobby and a lot of swimming (indoor considering where we live :p) since my daughter is on a swim team. So, I need fast glass and the two zoom lenses I have work perfectly for that and for anything else I do. I've always wanted a long lens, wishing for a 400 but I could not justify the huge price jump over the 300, and then I found a deal I could not pass up on a 300. I may add a 1.4x converter and then I'm done with gear, well at least until the next best thing comes along. ;)

Some folks told me to go with the 1D4 since I shoot sports frequently, but with swimming it's easy to get your timing right and 10fps is not really needed. I take 3-4 shots at a time, so the 1D4's faster fps was not a big selling point for me. Besides stumbling upon a great deal, portability/convenienc​e or whatever you want to call it was one of the factors for going with the 5D3 over the 1D4. This may sound lame but with one body only, I did not want it to become a drag to take with me on a whim/vacation or wherever, so the 5D3 was a better choice for an "all around" body for me.


Cheers,
Laurent
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Oct 31, 2012 14:25 |  #13

I definitely agree on the flexibility of the smaller body. I may go down to one with the 5DM3.... not sure. When I shot Nikon, we did a trip to Disney with 4 kids and I drug around a D2H and 24-70 f/2.8, plus some other gear. Not only did I look like a total geek, but it was very limiting in enjoying our time there. Quite frankly, most of our snapshots are now captured with one of the families many iPhones and iPads. The pictures are pretty good most of the time. The notable exception is a family gathering where we end up with group shots and I know I'm taking a lot of indoor pictures... then the DSLR comes out.

I reduced my kit quite a bit about a year ago... ditching studio lights, pocket wizards, 400 f/2.8, macro gear, etc... because I wasn't using it that often. I still have a bunch of primes for indoor sports, and I'd love to ditch it. When I went to the 1DM3, I thought I was going to switch to shooting f/2.8 at that time, but the noise was still unacceptable in comparison to shooting at f/2, so I usually take primes over noise. I'm sure the same thing will be there with the 5DM3, but if its good enough then I can make the jump. For what I'm doing now, a nice small kit with a body and a few lenses that cover the range of situations would be ideal.


Mike
R6 II - RF 100-500L f/4.5-7.1 IS - EF 17-40L f/4 - 24-70L f/2.8 II - 70-200L f/2.8 IS II -
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Oct 31, 2012 14:28 |  #14

svassh wrote in post #15190524 (external link)
I think the 1D III and 5D III make a great combination. I use the 1D III when I know I will be shooting a ton of pictures and don't want to process 600+ images at 24MB each. I love the 5D III for everything else and will use it for sports when shooting in poor lighting.

This is exactly what i think and the reason i chose to sell the 5d2 to upgrade to 5d3 instead of having 2 FF's. The 1d3 is still a really good camera for sports shooters, bif and price is also better too compare to the mark iv




  
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Oct 31, 2012 15:10 |  #15

Dasani wrote in post #15191510 (external link)
This is exactly what i think and the reason i chose to sell the 5d2 to upgrade to 5d3 instead of having 2 FF's. The 1d3 is still a really good camera for sports shooters, bif and price is also better too compare to the mark iv

So you have a 1DM3 and 5DM3. In terms of AF performance and high ISO, particularly in gym lighting, how much of a difference between the two? I am hoping to move from f/2 to f/2.8, while improving image quality with reduced noise and better sharpness.

As I said, I've never been happy with Canon's AF tracking compared to my Nikon days. Does the 5DM3 allow you to actually use any of the auto tracking modes, or are you still reduced to single point for servo?


Mike
R6 II - RF 100-500L f/4.5-7.1 IS - EF 17-40L f/4 - 24-70L f/2.8 II - 70-200L f/2.8 IS II -
135L f/2 - 100 f/2.8 Macro - Siggy 15 f/2.8 Fisheye - RF TC1.4 - EF TC1.4 II - TC2 III - (2) 600EX-RT - ST-E3-RT

  
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Anyone "upgrade" from 1DM3 to 5DM3 vs 1DM4?
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