Overpowering the sun

Wilt wrote in post #15202147
The typical HSS flash loses -2EV or even -3EV of power when it is actively in HSS...dropping the distance from 5.6' to a mere 2.8' or even 2'

As for doing away with the ND filter, the OP's idea is to reduce the intensity of the ambient in order to permit f/2.8 with a shutter speed within X-sync speed range.

My point here is that doing away with the ND filter give him back ISO and shutter speed while requiring the Speedlite to go into HSS. If he could get 5.6 feet with a 4 stop ND then he is gaining a stop by only loosing 3 EV to HSS.

Loosing 2 to 3 stops of flash power gets you that much farther away from where you want to be.

Try this test; set up your light(s) and modifier in your studio, house or garage. Then come up with a combination that will give you F16 at the distance and coverage you want at 1/100, ISO 100. F16 is based on shooting at 1/200 in full sun using the sunny 16 rule, therefore killing ambient by 1 stop.

When you get that, throwing a 3 stop ND filter on gets you down to f5.6 for the same exposure because it's like having ISO 12.5 using the above test scenario. Using HSS would require moving the light closer to subject the requisite distance to make up for the power loss, which may not be and issue depending on what your coverage and modifier is. You won't know until you test what you have.

I use 2 AB1600's and 2 Beauty dish's with socks that make a 150 degree spread for each light and I shoot in full F/16 sunlight all day long with Zero issues. I would think an Einstein would do the same. I can shoot 3-5 people with 1/2 body shots in Full F/16 light all day long with 1 light. So unless i've read this wrong, its no problem with strobes outside in full midday F/16 light.

My outside set up is 2 AB1600's, 2 Vagabond minis, and 2 Paul Buff white 22" Beauty dishes with the socks that come with the dish. 27 weddings this year and zero issues in midday F/16 light.

I use a 2X ND and a Tiffen Circular and im shooting at F/11-13 all day long with 10-12 in the shots. Not sure why he cant do this with an Einstein... maybe i read it wrong.

Hi Mike

My comment was directed more at the post above mine, relative to HSS.

But further more, I'm not saying it is or it isn't a problem. My point was that people should test their own equipment in a fashion that they think they want to work with it. I don't use Einsteins, I use Ranger RX units and to be honest, I was surprised at some of the limitations at 1100WS with certain modifiers, not BD's or reflectors of course.

Mike with one Einstein and a modifier like softbox I could not over power the sun for full length shots. I could match it but not bring down ambient 2-3 stops. Now with 1 series camera I would get 1 more stop compared to 5d as I can use 1/320 easily compared to 1/200. Shooting at 1/640 with mini,flex and AB strobes also help. The exposure gradient can be fixed easily in LR.

one can use two Einstein's like Op mentioned. I would prefer each with a softbox but mount both boxes on same light stand to get nice full length coverage. Or use BD for face and softbox as fill for body.

1200Ws would be my starting point. To really know down sun, 2400ws.

windpig wrote in post #15205290
Hi Mike

I'm not saying it is or it isn't a problem. My point was that people should test their own equipment in a fashion that they think they want to work with it. I don't use Einsteins, I use Ranger RX units and to be honest, I was surprised at some the limitations at 1100WS with certain modifiers, not BD's or reflectors of course.

OK,, Got it. Im finding that small softboxes ( 24x36') in the Horizontal position and Beauty dishes let me get the light where it needs to be to get nice blues skys , no shadows in the light sockets and I dont have to worry about a little breeze launching a light.

This gets asked a lot in the wedding forum. check these links.

https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1244483

bobbyz wrote in post #15205312
Mike with one Einstein and a modifier like softbox I could not over power the sun for full length shots. I could match it but not bring down ambient 2-3 stops. Now with 1 series camera I would get 1 more stop compared to 5d as I can use 1/320 easily compared to 1/200. Shooting at 1/640 with mini,flex and AB strobes also help. The exposure gradient can be fixed easily in LR.

one can use two Einstein's like Op mentioned. I would prefer each with a softbox but mount both boxes on same light stand to get nice full length coverage. Or use BD for face and softbox as fill for body.

1200Ws would be my starting point. To really know down sun, 2400ws.

I think you are right here Bobby. I just checked a few shots and yup, the full legnth group shots were lit with 2 strobes. 1/2 to 3/4 shots and i can get 3-4 to ambient with 1 strobe with no problems. And yes,, i miss the 1/320 with the MKIV. Its huge outside but im working my way around this with the 5D3's and and a 2X ND.

FWI, I can get full sync speed using the Yongnuo 622s to trigger my Eli lights. I'll take an extra SS I can get.

One more point here and NOT to take nothing away from Wilt as i really respect his lighting knowledge.

But when i was younger and TRIED to shoot film, I sucked becuase i was no good at all this guide number stuff. Im visual and horrible with math. Brain just does not work like this. shoot we used strings and tape measures because we knew we had to set lights and setting to make thing work...total hack

Viewfinders, ND's and Circulars are your friends here when lighting outdoors in midday light. You can bring down the ambient but you still need to light the subject to what the actual ambient is or you get dark faces and racoon eyes. Also, use the sun to your advantage. Dont shoot directly into it if you dont have to. You can position your clients to where the sun can be used as a kicker or rim (off-set from camera axis ) type light and shoot off set to the main harsh sun light and get really good results. 4:00-5:00 PM light before a reception is a hell of alot better than than 1:00PM light after they get finished dressing so plan your outdoor lighting accordingly.

Use your viewfinders and zoom into the eyes to see what you have. and be prepared to move your lights in a Foot or two if you're at full power to get a good mix of strobe light with ambient light.. If i had to rely on understanding guide numbers i would be toast.

I can't imagine trying to do any of this and get a well exposed image relative to ratios, without a light meter. That is to say, to get images that do not look "flash".

http://www.adorama.com …light-Portraits-AdoramaTV

Great session on the subject on Adorama TV