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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting 
Thread started 05 Nov 2012 (Monday) 02:37
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External metering & 600 EX - no improvement

 
dmward
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Nov 09, 2012 22:14 |  #31

Wilt wrote in post #15227952 (external link)
Dave,
Here are two shots of ColorChecker, on under CFL and the other under daylight. The18% grey patch is equalized on both shots to 51-52%. All other parameters except for WB and Exposure are identical for the two shots.

The black patch is 11-12% on the CFL shot, whereas it is 13-14% on the daylight shot...a slight difference but not a signficant one. However the white patch is only 84% on the CFL shot, and 92% on the daylight shot!

QUOTED IMAGE
QUOTED IMAGE

Wilt,
This is probably not the best place to start a discussion about color management using the Color Checker. What color space are you using? If you are doing the readings in Lightroom then its ProPhoto by default. The grey square you are referring to has a 40% plus minus value in Prophoto RGB not 51%. Next did you do a white balance on the second square from the white square? That's the square that Adobe uses for its white balance reference. Then, what tone curve are you using? Unfortunately, Eric Chan, the principle engineer at Adobe, decided when doing the work on ACR and Lightroom raw conversion not to apply any tonal range default. It is his view that tonal range is too subject dependent and he feels that imposing a tone curve would limit creative potential.

That's why, as I noted earlier, in my experience using the white square to set exposure and then applying a strong tone curve in Lightroom brings the black square quite close to its reference value. I then let the 4 other square fall where they will and adjust the tone curve based on the image.

For critical documentation I have built a tone curve that has each square at its reference. The curve meanders from white to black with some significant hills and valleys.

If you think about it for a minute, I think you'll agree an uniform light source does not have inherent contrast. If a flat white card is placed in the sun so that the light is striking it evenly it will read the same value with a light meter at any point. Placing a Color Checker in the middle of the card and photographing it results in a reference for that light source.

Move the card into a room, illuminate it with one or more incandescent lights, metering to confirm consistent illumination across the card, place the color checker in the center and photograph it. Now you have a reference for the incandescent light source. Import the two images into Lightroom, adjust the white balance using the second square and we now have a reference for the spectral response of the light source based on a standard reference.

Lights with a red bias are different than lights with a blue bias, etc. That's what you are measuring not a contrast in the light.
Remember how we used to select the B&W film we used, or the color film, based on how it would "interpret" the light?
DXO, and others, have developed software plug-ins for Lightroom to emulate a wide variety of films, B&W as well as color.
If one takes a Color Checker image and applies those emulators, the grey scale and color reference squares change, in some cases dramatically. Again, its not because the light suddenly has more contrast or is bluer or more yellow. Its the color bias and tonal response of the film being emulated. These characteristics can be seen when opening the tone curve panel and HSL panel in lightroom. The sliders have moved to recreate in Lightroom the tonal and color response of the film.

At least in one instance, based on what the plug-in creator related on his website, these plug-ins are created by photographing a Color Checker in various light sources with the film, then reading the squares with a spectrometer and replicating those readings in Lightroom using the sliders in the tone curve and HSL modules.


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Wilt
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Nov 10, 2012 10:49 |  #32

Dave,
My point was that when photographing the ColorChecker in the sun, a contrasty source, one can readily obtain the 93-94% reflectivity (white with detail) that we expect from paper (a mirror would reflect 100%) while the mid-tone reflects about 50% we expect and the blacks are down about 10% (black with detail). But when under a lower contrast lighting, we do not see that normally expected range of brightnesses, again using '50% mid-tone as a reference....instead the white with detail maxes out at a much lower value.

I won't debate best postprocessing technique. But to answer your question, I did use LR3, linear tone curve so as to not adjust what the sensor captured. And, as I stated, 18% grey has been well establish as the norm for 'middle tone'. The 4th square on the ColorChecker is identical to the Kodak Grey Card, so I use that for both WB and for Exposure determination, for that reason. The 3rd square is more similar to the WhiBal card, which is useless for exposure determination, and I don't necessarily care what Adobe chose to do for the same reason.

Using a similar technique for a variety of ColorChecker shots under different lighting, you will see changes to the percetange range of the patches. I agree that the ColorChecker has an inherent range, yet why the differing end result in contastiness of the resulting photo?!


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Nov 10, 2012 11:03 |  #33

This is especially sad since my 30(?) year old Vivitar 283s are dead on, and they only set me back an average 20 bucks apiece.


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Nov 10, 2012 11:16 |  #34

Wilt wrote in post #15229829 (external link)
Using a similar technique for a variety of ColorChecker shots under different lighting, you will see changes to the percetange range of the patches. I agree that the ColorChecker has an inherent range, yet why the differing end result in contastiness of the resulting photo?!

I just did another experiment, this time with the cooperation of Mother Nature...clear sun one moment, followed by sun hidden behind clouds the next. Balanced WB with LR eyedropper, default Brightness 50 Contrast 25, Linear tone curve, same tonality set for both via Exposure control, all other settings identical.
Lo and behold, I got 50% tonality reading from the mid-tone, and 89% tonality for the white patch...on BOTH shots. I'll have to admit my prior conclusion was incorrect, about contast of lighting affecting the contrast of the Colorchecker rendition. :oops:

sun

IMAGE: http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i63/wiltonw/Lt_contrastiness-7598.jpg
cloud
IMAGE: http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i63/wiltonw/Lt_contrastiness-7600.jpg

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dmward
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Nov 11, 2012 00:44 |  #35

Wilt wrote in post #15229896 (external link)
I just did another experiment, this time with the cooperation of Mother Nature...clear sun one moment, followed by sun hidden behind clouds the next. Balanced WB with LR eyedropper, default Brightness 50 Contrast 25, Linear tone curve, same tonality set for both via Exposure control, all other settings identical.
Lo and behold, I got 50% tonality reading from the mid-tone, and 89% tonality for the white patch...on BOTH shots. I'll have to admit my prior conclusion was incorrect, about contast of lighting affecting the contrast of the Colorchecker rendition. :oops:

sun
QUOTED IMAGE
cloud
QUOTED IMAGE

If you think about it for a minute, light can't create contrast based on the source. The apparent contrast is the reflectivity of the subject or varying intensity.

The color checker, even though its a matte finish on the squares is touchy about being square to the light. It is also best to shoot it square to the camera.


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Nov 14, 2012 08:36 |  #36

I just got my 600. When I shoot at ISO 6400 the image is overexposed compared to ETTL. When I shoot at ISO 800 it is underexposed. I'll stick with ETTL. Pretty easy to chimp the histogram, etc and FEC via the camera Q screen.


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External metering & 600 EX - no improvement
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