beginning of the end for upgrades

When I ran Windows, I built my own computers for years. Not once did I ever actually "upgrade" components. I had a lot of stuff die that I had to replace, but every time I got to where I needed to upgrade, I ended up wanting/needing to upgrade nearly everything but the hard drive and case. And in all my time doing this, I almost always spent more building it myself than if I'd just bought something. I enjoyed doing it, but I certainly didn't save any money.

I switched to Macs about 6 years ago and have no desire to "upgrade". I pay more for a Mac up front, but I also sell it after about 3 years for a healthy share of what I paid for it, and then just buy a new one. When I get to wanting to upgrade some part if it... same as with the home brew machines, I usually want to see improvements in other parts as well. So the whole upgrade thing to me is overblown.

gjl711 wrote in post #15337122
Apple users = almost zero, other users, more significant than you might imagine. It would not surprise me that this is also very age related, the older you get, the less likely you are to put your own system together, but for anyone under say 35~40 or a gamer you're likly to find many why would prefer to build their own system.

You're referring to the high-end market. Like I said, if that market is worth catering to then someone will do that. But it makes no sense for 100 users to pay extra for upgradeability so that one of them can take advantage of it.

Don't get me wrong - I've done my fair share of PC upgrading. But any recent changes I've made were for functionality, not performance. New video card because the old one didn't support 1080p, more HD space, etc. These days you're more likely to get what you need built-in. People who want more performance will usually decide it's time for a new machine which has better performance EVERYWHERE. Quieter, cooler, faster HD, faster CPU, faster video, etc.

mike_d wrote in post #15339112
And don't forget businesses who still expect to be able to perform some repairs and upgrades on desktop PCs.

That is probably declining, though, as PCs get cheaper. Due to increased cloud and network services, I don't think the load on typical office computers increases as much as it used to.

For my past two jobs, any issues with PC, they get replaced easily. My previous job, a lot of facilities would store everything in servers with backup in other locations and any can log into ANY pc within the network and access their files. When a PC goes bad, they get a new one and the old one is put away into scarp PC room.

RHChan84 wrote in post #15342936
For my past two jobs, any issues with PC, they get replaced easily. My previous job, a lot of facilities would store everything in servers with backup in other locations and any can log into ANY pc within the network and access their files. When a PC goes bad, they get a new one and the old one is put away into scarp PC room.

Those are probably large companies. With very small companies, I've found they try to squeeze all they can out of existing hardware before replacing it. If a new power supply or additional RAM keeps it running for another couple of years, they'll do it.

isoMorphic wrote in post #15307234
As far as the PC OEMs are concerned, killing off the PC upgrade market would be a good thing because it would push people to buy new PCs rather than upgrade their existing hardware. The PC industry is currently stagnant, partly because consumers and enterprise are making existing hardware last longer.

http://www.zdnet.com …us-7000008024/?s_cid=e539

I guess China Inc. will be especially happy as consumers will have no choice of buying anything but cheap proprietary junk they offer us. Similar to what has happened with Mp3 players and portable TV's you either spend rediclous money for name brand or you get a product that self destructs in a year.

Seems like technology keeps going backwards as more and more devices now have non removable batteries, bootloaders are locked, memory is soldered in, drives and other bits becoming non replaceable, many devices lack storage card slots and we need bulky and expensive cases to protect our thin delicate devices.

I rather stick to building my own computer thank you rather than buy something that I have to phone up an expensive telephone number.

I think the report doesn't know what its talking about because there are computer users that want to overclock their computers and don't want bog standard computer that "just work" at stock speeds

convergent wrote in post #15339154
...I almost always spent more building it myself than if I'd just bought something. I enjoyed doing it, but I certainly didn't save any money..

Two things come to mind. First, if you really paid more for a comparable machine then you had a very poor source for parts. Building a machine fol less is simple. Building reusing other components saves even more. For instance, I have used the same case for many machines. The PS has been upgraded but the case is the same. Same with DVD drives, power supplies and such. Or secondly, you are purchasing much lower powered PCs and comparing them to a beastly machine you built which is my guess. I personally do this. I look at the machines places like BB, Tiger, Newegg sell and look at the price. Then start costing out building my own saving where I can from my pool of parts. Then seeing a significant reduction I figure I can upgrade the processor a bit putting in something more powerfull, upgrade the ram, upgrade the graphics card, toss in a SSD primary and before you know it I have a more expensive but much more capable machine.

AntonLargiader wrote in post #15341070
..But it makes no sense for 100 users to pay extra for upgradeability so that one of them can take advantage of it...

I think your minimizing the size of the DYIers. There are a lot more out there 1%. Just look at all the companies selling parts. Tiger and Newegg may be the big ones but there are hundreds if not thousands of companies servicing the DYI market. Also, I believe a lot is age related. Once you get older you tend to loose the DYI spirit but the high schools, colleges, and young adults still have a significant population of DYIers. I believe the the DYIers are significantly more than 1%

RichSoansPhotos wrote in post #15344109
I rather stick to building my own computer thank you rather than buy something that I have to phone up an expensive telephone number.

I think the report doesn't know what its talking about because there are computer users that want to overclock their computers and don't want bog standard computer that "just work" at stock speeds

Or there are some of us who like the higher performance machines and can build one for significantly less then a box manufacturer. When I built my last machine it ran about $900 but a comparable performance machine was closer to $1500~$1800. High end machines form manufacturers are just plain expensive.

Bottom line is that there is a market for both. For my 82 year old mother in law, my 84 year old aunt, my 61 year old cousin, I would recommend a very nice inexpensive BB computer. Just pull it out of the box and plug it in. For those just looking to be a straight user like business and most people, a off the shelf product is just fine. But enthusiasts, gamers, those trying to maximize performance while minimizing price the DYI route is a very cost effective way to do so.

Well, that might be the market's solution then. Off-the-shelf non-upgradeable units for the consumer market, components for the DIYers. However, the direction I would see that going is lower and lower cost for the consumer units (through volume and lower MFG costs) and higher costs for components (due to low volume), to the point that there is little sense building one any more if someone is making high-end units.

I'm not advocating for that, BTW. I'm just looking at other areas where repair/upgrade is becoming less and less available and consumers don't seem to mind.

gjl711 wrote in post #15344624
Or there are some of us who like the higher performance machines and can build one for significantly less then a box manufacturer. When I built my last machine it ran about $900 but a comparable performance machine was closer to $1500~$1800. High end machines form manufacturers are just plain expensive.

Bottom line is that there is a market for both. For my 82 year old mother in law, my 84 year old aunt, my 61 year old cousin, I would recommend a very nice inexpensive BB computer. Just pull it out of the box and plug it in. For those just looking to be a straight user like business and most people, a off the shelf product is just fine. But enthusiasts, gamers, those trying to maximize performance while minimizing price the DYI route is a very cost effective way to do so.

Correct there is a market for both, ones that know and the ones that can't get their head above building a computer of their own, even opening a Word document is a struggle to do for some

But at least when things go wrong for those who are enthusiasts or geeks, things a little cheaper in that we don't have to buy a whole new computer and in the consequence of that, probably lose their documents that can be easily retrieved or mis-sold into buying a load of unnecessary gear in order to keep the business profit margin up

AntonLargiader wrote in post #15337069
Oh come on. You think a handful of throwbacks should be enough to dictate this kind of strategy for Intel? The vast, vast majority of users won't care or else they will like the result (smaller, cheaper, whatever). PCs are appliances. Most people toss the whole thing out (hard drives included!) and just buy new. Why go to the expense of making user-upgradeable machines for that market? Those buyers never complained when video, networking and USB went onto the MB. Smaller case, great!

I can buy Arm for a cloud systems why pay Intel prices for that?

You don't ignore a huge nich market that is your bread and butter and still expect growth.

I have been having a local guy about 5 miles away building my last two machines. Much faster, multiple hard drives, new current motherboard and 32GB ram and 2 heavy chains to hold it down it is so fast. Less money and none of the manufacturer's crap on my harddrives. When I need service (2 times in 4 years), he comes to the house as part of the original payment. We now have the unit to unit connection for him to diagnose over the net.

Wow that's pretty nice to have that kind of service. You just don't see that anymore with people coming to your house. Now it's talk to some guy in another country and sit on hold for 20 minutes.