Just how dumb is Canon's auto mode??

Hey guys...so I never shoot auto (seriously..ever), but the other day I was out hiking and wanted to take a picture of the trail map (I do this to help me navigate in case I get lost), and didn't feel like fiddling with the settings, so I slapped it on the green box (for the first time since I got the camera 7,000 frames ago) and fired away.

Later, I was looking at the picture and realized that the stupid camera took the shot in bright daylight at 1/10 sec, f22...that seems like an incredibly stupid setting for at least two big reasons (one, it's too slow, two the aperture is so narrow that the IQ suffers quite noticeably from diffraction). This was on a 5D2, by the way.

I shot a couple of trail maps that day, and they were all like that...stopped way down, with a brutally slow shutter speed...is there a reason for this?

Sounds anomalous to me... I always thought that Auto made reasonable shutter speed a priority when possible.

Its funny that you mention that. A little while ago, I flipped the camera to greenbox so I could hand it over to someone. When they took the picture, the sound of the shutter lagging from a long SS caught my attention, so I took it back - and yeah, the smallest aperture the lens allowed, and a stupidly long shutter speed. I don't know, since I never use auto modes I dont configure the settings for them. Maybe there is some sort of limiter or preset in the menus we havn't looked at, since we dont use the auto mode?

Albert Nam wrote in post #15309955
Sounds anomalous to me... I always thought that Auto made reasonable shutter speed a priority when possible.

That's been the case with my compacts (even on those, I usually shoot in M mode, but if I'm just taking a quick picture of something I'm selling or whatever, I'll put it onto Green Box every now and again, and never had an issue)...but not this time haha...I mean the picture came out perfectly exposed...but definitely wasn't the sharpest thanks to the settings.

Christina.DazzleByDesi​gn wrote in post #15309965
Its funny that you mention that. A little while ago, I flipped the camera to greenbox so I could hand it over to someone. When they took the picture, the sound of the shutter lagging from a long SS caught my attention, so I took it back - and yeah, the smallest aperture the lens allowed, and a stupidly long shutter speed. I don't know, since I never use auto modes I dont configure the settings for them. Maybe there is some sort of limiter or preset in the menus we havn't looked at, since we dont use the auto mode?

I'm not sure, I've never heard of any such limiters that could be set by the user...which camera were you using that did that? I see you have a 5D3, maybe this is something unique to the 5D series?

Interesting...my auto shots also have a very low ISO

Yes it was the 5D3. It was quite some time ago now, and since then I just set to AV when handing it over. At least then I can implement something for the camera to work with.

Lone Rider wrote in post #15309984
Interesting...my auto shots also have a very low ISO

Does the camera do this by sacrificing shutter speed? (ie: keeps it at ISO 100, but forces the SS to be down at like 1/10, instead of speeding up the shutter and bumping the ISO?)

I mean if the SS is normal, then I understand keeping the ISO low...but if it's forcing the shutter to remain open for too long, then it's silly for it to keep it at a low ISO.

LowriderS10 wrote in post #15309995
Does the camera do this by sacrificing shutter speed? (ie: keeps it at ISO 100, but forces the SS to be down at like 1/10, instead of speeding up the shutter and bumping the ISO?)

I mean if the SS is normal, then I understand keeping the ISO low...but if it's forcing the shutter to remain open for too long, then it's silly for it to keep it at a low ISO.

I think it takes the focal length into account, right? Ideally, it should also factor in the focal distance to find a good exposure time that will avoid camera shake blur. Of course, not everyone can hold at 1/focal length. And subject movement is also a variable. I'm sure glad I'm not a Canon programmer.

Best thing to do is use one of the C modes for common situations you encounter where you don't want to think about settings.

That is why I shoot in AV. It's still semi auto, and I don't have to think or fiddle (much). But I have never used auto mode so I can't judge if mine is dumb or not. Makes me wonder though......

I never use auto mode aka the green box. I have only used it when someone wanted to try my camera without explaining how it works; cause I have it setup that wouldn't help them at all. I've done this the same in my 5D2 and it still took normal shots and nothing terrible came out those shots. I just don't have much experience with auto mode. My easiest personal auto mode is when I leave the camera on auto ISO and on Av. Thats fast enough to shoot a random thing (Or I use my phone camera) . Besides that, I never use auto-ISO.

Green box should select the same values as P mode does. Auto ISO may behave differently between them, though.

I just took a shot on green box indoors with my 7D and 17-55/2.8. I shot at some items near a north facing window with the drape open and early morning light from partly cloudy skies. The camera used 1/15 SS, ISO 400, f/2.8, flash, evaluative metering, AI Focus, standard picture style, and is set to use automatic focus point selection, three were selected. The shot looks OK in the screen and the PC. DxO Optics Pro 8 reports that the camera was in P mode.

Dumb maybe not, weird yes by my preferences. I use M mode only.

apersson850 wrote in post #15311600
Green box should select the same values as P mode does. Auto ISO may behave differently between them, though.

green box is always auto ISO.

I'd suspect the camera decided you needed everything in focus so it picked f22.

I never use the "green box mode" either.

When I need to take a quick shot and don't want to make or don't have time to make exposure calculations and think about it... I just use P/Program. It does the same thing, but without messing with file types (I shoot RAW), AF settings, allows use of Exposure Compensation if I wish, etc. It makes reasonable exposures, appears to use shutter speeds that are based upon focal length and hand held shooting and corresponding apertures without changing ISO (I also never use Auto ISO).

Shooting up close like that in green box mode, with all points of the AF active, the camera was trying to get everything from near to far in focus. This wouldn't be a factor if you had used P... unless you already had AF set up to use all points. The problem with green box is that it overrides so much more than just exposure parameters. In particular, it changes your file types and auto focus settings, too. Use P instead.

apersson850 wrote in post #15311600
Green box should select the same values as P mode does. Auto ISO may behave differently between them, though.

P mode is user selectable for the aperture and shutter values though. You spin the dial and it will speed up your shutter and open the aperture one way, or slow down the shutter and close the aperture the other. Green box, as far as I am aware, just selects values and you cannot change them. So, it isn't possible to say that green box should select the same values as P mode, as that would depend on how the user chose them anyway.

I have never used green box mode, simply because it leaves the camera to make every decision from shutter, ISO and aperture to give it's idea of correct exposure, to deciding what the subject should be and focusing on that.

In essence, setting green box mode is telling the camera that you don't care about what settings are used, so it can use what it likes. You get the convenience of not having to think about settings or focusing etc., but take the chance that the settings chosen are not going to be what you want. It is pointless complaining later that the camera chose the wrong settings.

I appreciate the desire sometimes to shoot on automatic and not worry too much about settings, but you can still do that without using green box. Using Av or Tv at least allows you to choose two values (or one if using auto ISO) and let the camera work around that.

In short, yes, full green box auto can be pretty dumb. It is guessing at what you might want with no clues coming it's way by setting at least basic shutter speed, or using a single focus point to tell the camera where to focus. It is far better to at least use a semi auto mode which allows some control and gets you out of all points AF, which is as likely to focus on a small bush to the right and in front of your subject, as your subject itself.