what came first, the gear or the photographer.

hey guys, this is a question based on the classic question of "what came first, the chicken or the egg".

basically i'm in a situation where i want to start a small photog business, nothing big like weddings or engagement, etc.. just intimate family portraiture, headshots, etc...i problem is, i pretty much sold all my gear into the olympus e-pl5 with 12mm and 45mm.

I use to own a 5dmII, 50 1.2, 24-70, etc... but i sold it all because i wasnt fully utilizing it and i considered it a waste. so the question is, in order to get something simple going, how much should i invest in gear to get myself started?

thanks all

If you have the vision and ability you can create saleable images with a P&S so in that sense the photographer came first.

If you are shooting in controlled and well lit envirenments then pretty much any camera will return decent results - if you are shooting in more tricky situations then you will miss the 5DMK2.

How much should you spend - the minimum that you can get away with is my stock answer to this question. If you are happy presenting yourself as a professional photographer with a P&S then go for it if it can deliver the goods.

If you would be more comfortable showing up with a "big" camera rest assurred that most customers will just see a "big" camera and won't know the difference between a 5DMK3 and a 600D.

As long as you are doing only portraits and such then you only need a minimal amount of gear. Exactly what constitutes minimal depends on your style of work and what you intend to deliver. I would think you would need an SLR, probably two lenses (one portrait lens, and one suitable for group shots). I personally wouldnt offer portrait services without having a decent lighting kit available, not that you always need it, but being in business means you need to control the situation and not have it control you. You cant make much if you can only shoot during good light.

That's a hard question to answer. You could drop the cash and get a really nice setup and if you can't bring in the customers then you may well be screwed (if you took out a loan or something). Alternately, you could open shop, do some portraits and roll your earnings into better gear. Personally, I'd go for route #2. Your e-pl5 isn't going to impress anyone walking in, but you should be able to get the job done.

Gear came first.

My vision preceded my acquiring decent gear. But a 5D classic used + used flash (430ex e.g.) + 50mm 1.8 + 85mm + umbrella + lightstand shouldn't add up to much more than $1600.

I'm perhaps masochistic, but I'm wondering about the possibility of using that Mamiya for portraits..

...work backwards.

Who is your target market? What type of images do they expect? How much will they pay you? Do a marketing plan. Prepare a business plan. Draft financial forecasts for your first year of business.

When I prepared my business plan last year I determined I would need two 1Dx's to start my business. (I know they didn't exist at the time, but I was wishing ahead!!!) But after adding financial forecasts to the plan I instead purchased a 7D/5D combo. At the start of the new financial year I hope to be adding a 5DMIII to the mix. And those 1Dx's will come eventually!

Figure out what you will need to run your business. Then figure out what you can afford. So what comes first? Business/marketing plan, financial forecasts, then gear.

@ Christopher

you know, i was thinking the exact same thing! not sure how efficient that'll. but i'll have to get that thing CLA'd. i know gear shouldnt matter and its all up to the photographer. i've owned a 5d classic that was one heck of a body. some of my best work was from the classic, and not the markII.

thanks everyone for your input, this is certainly a hard question and no wrong answers. the portfolio, website, marketing is without a doubt the priority before any sort of business can be started. i will certainly be investing in a hosting service such and smugmug or zenfolio.

I look at it from a business perspective, after all, you posted it in the business section. Gear matters....not because of your skills but better gear would be more durable, reliable, and speeding up your work flow. You look like you have a lot of film gear. Do you think you or even your gear is confident and reliable enough to shoot a wedding??? In fact, if you are telling me you will shoot your first wedding with your Mamiya c330, I would tell you that you are crazy.

Scroll down to my reply #4.

https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1255367

It is always nice to show off your skills using "inferior gear." It is another thing to shoot a paid gig using cheap gear.

@toomanyshots
no i wasn't planning on shooting weddings, not to mention weddings with a c330! =)
i was aiming towards small projects and then seeing where i'm at after 1 year then go from there.

i agree that on a business/professional level, an investment in quality, reliable, and durable gear is required, i certainly won't go to a barber and let him cut my hair with a rusty old pair of sheers. not exactly the correct analogy i'm looking for but thats all i can of right now =) but i know what you mean.

I shot plenty of weddings with a C330 and I still have it. Armed with a couple of pro packs of VPH 220 I would have no hesitation about going and shooting a wedding tomorrow like that. Matter of fact, the very thought of it brings a smile to my face!

I would so love to challenge so many of the digital, gear obsessed, edit the crap out of everything johhny come latley's to a shootoff with a C330 or a Holga for that matter and put the pics before a panel of Judges. Take the gear out of the equation and lets work on real knowledge of photography and see how we go! :0)

As far as gear goes, I'll get shouted down as usual but I have gone backwards on Camera purchases. I could go out and buy a couple of 1dx's right now without any financial strain thinks to a fantastic year, and reading a lot of threads here, I'm so tempted so I can enter the endless " Size of my manhood" contests and be at the top of the pile.
The thing is though, I'd rather go against the grain and do it different and have a chuckle at those would say what I'm doing is wrong and know how well that's paying off for me.

I bought 600 and 650's and use them all the time without a problem.
I have decent glass and the sensors I believe are the same as in the 7D or upgraded anyway.

I don't agree with the durability argument. Back in the days of C330s for sure because you kept the cam a good 10 years. These days there is something new every 2 years tops and most people upgrade anyway. I was still using 10D's on occasion before I bought the 600 then wondered why. The 600 would eat the 10 for breakfast and the 600's are available for under $500 here.

It makes no Business sense to overcapitalise on equipment. The smart thing with something as disposeable as cameras really are now is to get whatever will do the job you need it for and when it dies, update. For general portraits, wedding, event work, a 600/ 650 is perfectly adequate.

Yeah I know, it's the full fame thing for low light in the church thing people go on endlessly about but I'm now shooting in the same churches I was shooting in with the C330 and VPS/ VPH when the couple getting married today was the page boy and flower girl then. I got good shots back then and I can still get good shots with a 600/ 650 now.
It's a matter of relying on skill rather than gear.

Of course I also rather have 2 cams than 1 and buying a couple of perfectly adequate cams for the price of one cam that will do the exact same job makes a lot more business sense.

There will be of course endless people shooting me down with reasons of why you need a ff cam but I look at reasons why I can do what I need with a basic cam. Sure as heck the clients can't tell what cam I used from the pics they are paying for.
I like my 7D's but for what I earn my money from which is the same general work most other shooters are doing, I can use cheaper gear that is more affordable to upgrade as needed, that I don't stress over ( it's $500, who cares if it gets dropped or broken-cost of doing business) and I can have 4 of the things so if they do fail I have plenty of backups and can also put more cams on an event to cover it better.

In all my life I have never seen an interest group more hung up on equipment than photographers. I you need a 1DX to get the shots you need in the work you shoot, by all means get the right tool for the job. the thing is though very few shooters NEED one and they could have a Dozen 600's for the same price or possibly better glass which is the better investment short and long term.

glumpy wrote in post #15359729
I shot plenty of weddings with a C330 and I still have it. Armed with a couple of pro packs of VPH 220 I would have no hesitation about going and shooting a wedding tomorrow like that. Matter of fact, the very thought of it brings a smile to my face!

I would so love to challenge so many of the digital, gear obsessed, edit the crap out of everything johhny come latley's to a shootoff with a C330 or a Holga for that matter and put the pics before a panel of Judges. Take the gear out of the equation and lets work on real knowledge of photography and see how we go! :0)

As far as gear goes, I'll get shouted down as usual but I have gone backwards on Camera purchases. I could go out and buy a couple of 1dx's right now without any financial strain thinks to a fantastic year, and reading a lot of threads here, I'm so tempted so I can enter the endless " Size of my manhood" contests and be at the top of the pile.
The thing is though, I'd rather go against the grain and do it different and have a chuckle at those would say what I'm doing is wrong and know how well that's paying off for me.

I bought 600 and 650's and use them all the time without a problem.
I have decent glass and the sensors I believe are the same as in the 7D or upgraded anyway.

I don't agree with the durability argument. Back in the days of C330s for sure because you kept the cam a good 10 years. These days there is something new every 2 years tops and most people upgrade anyway. I was still using 10D's on occasion before I bought the 600 then wondered why. The 600 would eat the 10 for breakfast and the 600's are available for under $500 here.

It makes no Business sense to overcapitalise on equipment. The smart thing with something as disposeable as cameras really are now is to get whatever will do the job you need it for and when it dies, update. For general portraits, wedding, event work, a 600/ 650 is perfectly adequate.

Yeah I know, it's the full fame thing for low light in the church thing people go on endlessly about but I'm now shooting in the same churches I was shooting in with the C330 and VPS/ VPH when the couple getting married today was the page boy and flower girl then. I got good shots back then and I can still get good shots with a 600/ 650 now.
It's a matter of relying on skill rather than gear.

Of course I also rather have 2 cams than 1 and buying a couple of perfectly adequate cams for the price of one cam that will do the exact same job makes a lot more business sense.

There will be of course endless people shooting me down with reasons of why you need a ff cam but I look at reasons why I can do what I need with a basic cam. Sure as heck the clients can't tell what cam I used from the pics they are paying for.
I like my 7D's but for what I earn my money from which is the same general work most other shooters are doing, I can use cheaper gear that is more affordable to upgrade as needed, that I don't stress over ( it's $500, who cares if it gets dropped or broken-cost of doing business) and I can have 4 of the things so if they do fail I have plenty of backups and can also put more cams on an event to cover it better.

In all my life I have never seen an interest group more hung up on equipment than photographers. I you need a 1DX to get the shots you need in the work you shoot, by all means get the right tool for the job. the thing is though very few shooters NEED one and they could have a Dozen 600's for the same price or possibly better glass which is the better investment short and long term.

Yes, the c330 built like tank, if you do have one working surviving this long. I am shooting one right now. What have me scratching my head is trying to balance the ambient light and the flash with it, using maybe highest speed available film, asa 400. Obviously, the whole work flow is so different. Maybe one day I will burn a roll of 400 speed film trying out some flash photography. I could get my 580ex II to work and sync with the c330 though via a PC sync cable. Manual mode only of course.

TooManyShots wrote in post #15360021
Yes, the c330 built like tank, if you do have one working surviving this long. I am shooting one right now. What have me scratching my head is trying to balance the ambient light and the flash with it, using maybe highest speed available film, asa 400. Obviously, the whole work flow is so different. Maybe one day I will burn a roll of 400 speed film trying out some flash photography. I could get my 580ex II to work and sync with the c330 though via a PC sync cable. Manual mode only of course.

You can practice balancing ambient with flash by setting your E-PL5 to the max film speed you'd use. You don't need to burn film until you get it right.

I never remember having any flash Problems.
I used to use a lot of fill flash provided by a 45 Metz ( which I bought well over 20 yrs ago and still have and prefer over these speedlight things) set on auto to the same aperture as I had Dialled up on the Mamiya or a stop below as needed.

AS hard as it is for some to believe these days, shooters managed to get ((% of flash shots spot on without the need for ttl and even managed it with multiple units on rare occasion. I only bought my first speedlight This year and fail to see what all the fuss is about. The 45 metz STILL produces shots as well lit on any of my Digicams as any speedlight and in most cases, a hell of a lot better!
They also had real grunt not Guide numbers artificially rated by zooming the reflectors.

The beauty of the leaf shutters is they could do what all the electronic "do it all for you" crap today still can't do, They could flash sync at any speed. Most did 1/500, some like my bronica and blads did 1/1000... not that you ever needed it. And the best bit was, the only batterys in the mamiya was in the porrofinder which was only for the light meter you had to set yourself on the lens anyway. Most pros worth a damn used a Minolta hand held meter, some with the optical attachment you could do a reading with without having to go up to the subject.

I think these speedlight things are rubbish and they certainly won't last like the old hammerhead metz's. I laugh so much how shooters go on with so much rubbish as they do now about features and abilities of equipment like you can't live or take a decent pic without something when not so long ago shooters would have seen it as a cop out for not having the skill to know how to do the same thing themselves.

We all got on fine without all the electronic nose blowing, arse wiping things shooters put on the same need basis as Oxygen these days and everyone worked on skill not having the camera do all the work for them.

See if you can get a 45 CT or Cl Metz for your 330 and you won't have any problems with flash at all. You can pick them up cheap on Flea bay and if you get a 20 yo one, it will still be working and taking great pics with the 330 when all the stuff you bought today is a distant bad memory.