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Thread started 15 Dec 2012 (Saturday) 10:31
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Couple of questions for wedding pros.

 
nicksan
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Dec 22, 2012 19:27 |  #16

patrick clarke wrote in post #15397919 (external link)
second shooting kinda seems tike a waste of your talent nick
somewhat like a brilliant surgeon spendin a lot of time assisting other ( ? lesser } surgeons

Thanks. Fortunately, I have the luxury of a nice paying day job that I do enjoy (well somewhat enjoy I suppose!) so I can keep my photography side business as exactly that and as "supplemental" income. And with a 9 month old daughter, I figured out 5 weddings is all I can muster. Sure, a day on a weekend is the same whether you second shoot or shoot on your own, but it's the difference between shoot and burn and actually having to deliver a product that's really the big key for me. Logistically it just wouldn't be possible for me to shoot tons of weddings on my own.




  
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awad
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Dec 22, 2012 23:01 |  #17

nicksan wrote in post #15398009 (external link)
Thanks. Fortunately, I have the luxury of a nice paying day job that I do enjoy (well somewhat enjoy I suppose!) so I can keep my photography side business as exactly that and as "supplemental" income. And with a 9 month old daughter, I figured out 5 weddings is all I can muster. Sure, a day on a weekend is the same whether you second shoot or shoot on your own, but it's the difference between shoot and burn and actually having to deliver a product that's really the big key for me. Logistically it just wouldn't be possible for me to shoot tons of weddings on my own.

nothing wrong with second shooting. great way to evolve your vision.

that said...look into outsourcing your post production nicksan, maybe that could solve your problems and allow you to take on more weddings.


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Thomas ­ Campbell
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Dec 23, 2012 00:56 |  #18

patrick clarke wrote in post #15397919 (external link)
second shooting kinda seems tike a waste of your talent nick
somewhat like a brilliant surgeon spendin a lot of time assisting other ( ? lesser } surgeons

Second shooting is great. I try to second shoot 5-10 weddings a year. I generally get to focus on trying new things, new lighting and really create rather than just make sure all the B&G's hit list or album list are taken care of.

I'm extremely particular about who I will second for, though. I'm not going to build up some schmuck's portfolio for $50/hr.


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5W0L3
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Dec 23, 2012 01:01 |  #19

How do you approach anyone regarding second shooting?.. I haven't shot weddings (I have two booked in the next 2 months).. but just wondering how I would approach an experienced photographer regarding second shooting for him/her?

I assume if you contact them and tell them you haven't shot any weddings they would just ignore you lol


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Thomas ­ Campbell
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Dec 23, 2012 01:12 |  #20

5W0L3 wrote in post #15398771 (external link)
How do you approach anyone regarding second shooting?.. I haven't shot weddings (I have two booked in the next 2 months).. but just wondering how I would approach an experienced photographer regarding second shooting for him/her?

I assume if you contact them and tell them you haven't shot any weddings they would just ignore you lol

I would probably tell you thanks, but no thanks, if you had never shot a wedding before.

I don't really see my weddings as a training ground for newbie photographers.

But that is me. Other photogs are probably nicer than me. :twisted:

Generally you could tagalong (free, unpaid assistant there to observe and move lights) for people before you could second shoot for someone. I don't generally want to bring someone along like that that I don't know or haven't worked with in some capacity, because even if they are cheap labor, they represent my company professionally.

Contacting photogs and asking to tagalong to help with lights and equipment is probably your best bet until you get some experience. Maybe if you bust your ass, the photog will be nice and tip you. I rarely bring tagalongs, but always make sure and pay them something, even if we agreed on nothing because everyone has time demands on them in some way and they are providing a service to me.


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Tom ­ Reichner
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Dec 23, 2012 01:26 |  #21

5W0L3 wrote in post #15398771 (external link)
I haven't shot weddings (I have two booked in the next 2 months)..

These statements have me concerned.

Let me get this right: you haven't shot weddings before, yet you have somehow made two couples think that they can trust you to do a great job shooting their wedding. Is that really being fair to them? Do you really think you can do a truly great job photographing the single greatest day in their lives? Sure, it's ultimately up to the couple getting married to make sure that the person they hire is a true professional, but we, as photographers, also have a responsibility to make sure that potential clients know exactly what level of experience we have with the types of events they are hiring us for.

I just have trouble understanding why you would hire yourself out to shoot a wedding if you don't have some really solid experience shooting weddings professionally. Is this really about the client, and what's best for them? Or is there some other motive at work here?


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5W0L3
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Dec 23, 2012 01:53 |  #22

Tom Reichner wrote in post #15398815 (external link)
These statements have me concerned.

Let me get this right: you haven't shot weddings before, yet you have somehow made two couples think that they can trust you to do a great job shooting their wedding. Is that really being fair to them? Do you really think you can do a truly great job photographing the single greatest day in their lives? Sure, it's ultimately up to the couple getting married to make sure that the person they hire is a true professional, but we, as photographers, also have a responsibility to make sure that potential clients know exactly what level of experience we have with the types of events they are hiring us for.

I just have trouble understanding why you would hire yourself out to shoot a wedding if you don't have some really solid experience shooting weddings professionally. Is this really about the client, and what's best for them? Or is there some other motive at work here?

I've done tons of indoor receptions and engagement parties, as well as engagement photoshoots for clients before.. Just never got a chance to photograph a full wedding.

The clients I have booked are having a very low key wedding and they didn't want to spend much on the photographs. I explained to them my experience in shooting weddings and told them I have not shot a full wedding previously. They were happy to hire me looking at the work I've done for my engagement clients & portrait shoots, and thats why I'm only getting probably 1/2 of what experienced photographers get in terms of price they charge for a wedding, and I see it as a great opportunity to build my portfolio as I'm not concerned about how much I get paid at the moment until I have 5-10 weddings under my belt. I included this clause of having no experience in my wedding contract as well and the clients were happy to sign off on that.

In response to your other concern, I believe that I can shoot a full wedding and I do have the required experience in terms of shooting receptions (which I believe is the hardest to shoot in terms of consistency in a wedding) and I have done plenty of outdoor portraiture work as well. I also have the equipment to achieve good results (even in low light conditions) regardless of the venue I am shooting in. I guess everyone starts somewhere.. some of you guys started as an assistant, others as second shooters.. and i'm diving straight into being the main photographer at the wedding.


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Phil ­ V
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Dec 23, 2012 02:51 |  #23

Tom Reichner wrote in post #15398815 (external link)
These statements have me concerned.

Let me get this right: you haven't shot weddings before, yet you have somehow made two couples think that they can trust you to do a great job shooting their wedding. Is that really being fair to them? Do you really think you can do a truly great job photographing the single greatest day in their lives? Sure, it's ultimately up to the couple getting married to make sure that the person they hire is a true professional, but we, as photographers, also have a responsibility to make sure that potential clients know exactly what level of experience we have with the types of events they are hiring us for.

I just have trouble understanding why you would hire yourself out to shoot a wedding if you don't have some really solid experience shooting weddings professionally. Is this really about the client, and what's best for them? Or is there some other motive at work here?

Normally I'd agree with you. But having looked at his Flickr images, if I could hire him at newbie rates to shoot one of my daughters weddings I'd jump at the chance.:D


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nicksan
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Dec 23, 2012 09:01 |  #24

awad wrote in post #15398502 (external link)
nothing wrong with second shooting. great way to evolve your vision.

that said...look into outsourcing your post production nicksan, maybe that could solve your problems and allow you to take on more weddings.

Yeah, maybe that would alleviate some of the logistical constraints I would have. I need to look into that.

Thomas Campbell wrote in post #15398763 (external link)
Second shooting is great. I try to second shoot 5-10 weddings a year. I generally get to focus on trying new things, new lighting and really create rather than just make sure all the B&G's hit list or album list are taken care of.

I'm extremely particular about who I will second for, though. I'm not going to build up some schmuck's portfolio for $50/hr.

Yeah, me too. Second shooting is great b/c it allows me to try different stuff and evolve. I've been second shooting for the same guys for the last 2 years. I've done so much with them that I'm like a member of the team. I'm paid very well too and the best part is I get to use my images in my portfolio. They have zero issues with that.




  
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nicksan
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Dec 23, 2012 09:10 |  #25

5W0L3 wrote in post #15398841 (external link)
In response to your other concern, I believe that I can shoot a full wedding and I do have the required experience in terms of shooting receptions (which I believe is the hardest to shoot in terms of consistency in a wedding) and I have done plenty of outdoor portraiture work as well. I also have the equipment to achieve good results (even in low light conditions) regardless of the venue I am shooting in. I guess everyone starts somewhere.. some of you guys started as an assistant, others as second shooters.. and i'm diving straight into being the main photographer at the wedding.

I have to disagree with this. The wedding day is full with must-have moments. IMHO, while the typical reception has these moments, they aren't as instantaneous and you can usually jostle for position and get your shot, like the first dance, etc. Speeches too. They don't end in a few seconds. Same thing with everything else at the typical reception. Also, with regards to timing, the reception is typically the last portion of the day. It's typically dragged out so you also have time to relax a little.

The early parts of the day? A bit more hectic. Usually you are on a strict timeline, and there's always not enough time to shoot. At the ceremony, there are key moments you just don't have an option to miss. For the formals, you have to organize them, pose them, and just really hit it out of the ballpark. There's a lot more pressure to deliver.

That said, I think you'll do fine. The stuff on your Flickr looks really good. I am not sure under what time constraints you shot some of the photos, but they are of very high quality. There's absolutely nothing wrong diving into weddings provided expectations are set accordingly. I dove right in. Well, actually my first was a full wedding. But after that I second shot for quite a while to build up a portfolio and comfort level.




  
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patrick ­ clarke
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Dec 24, 2012 11:36 as a reply to  @ nicksan's post |  #26

well i am certainly not a wedding photography but i have done 2 weddings
one for my sister in law and the other for a friend who was willing to pose for me a few years before as i practiced portrait sessions ;she certainly knew i was not a wedding photographer but had seen my photos and thought i was good enough
having done those two i have to lift my hat to those who do this for a living
it is hectic,hard work and at the end of a long day shooting you have not even scratched the surface yet in terms of the amt of work you still have to put in to deliver the finished product
and the reception is certainly not the hardest part of the day ; it is during the ceremony when there are no re-takes and during the formals when it is often rushed




  
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5W0L3
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Dec 25, 2012 10:50 |  #27

thanks guys, always good to have views from experienced pros!


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Apr 25, 2013 06:11 |  #28

ktan7 wrote in post #15865104 (external link)
I would suggest you to start at $500 and raise your price $250 every wedding. On your 10th wedding, you should be charging at least ~$3k. Average "quality" photography is $3,500.00.

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That wouldn't work...
Do you often book the weddings in the same order you shoot them?


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umphotography
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Apr 25, 2013 08:23 |  #29

memoriesoftomorrow wrote in post #15391751 (external link)
I increase my prices whenever I feel I need to. You can easily do the same. Some people will only wait for a financial or calendar year end before they raise them. I just raise them whenever. The main thing is feeling confident you can deliver the value for what you are charging.

I didn't start at bargain basement prices, I don't think starting at those prices helps in the long term as you will effectively have to start over when you jump them to a reasonable level. I set out at around $1.5 then increased as and when I felt the demand was there and my work was worth the increase in price. I'm sitting currently at about $4k. I could be charging more I suppose but I like how things are sitting at the moment as I have my next 3 years planned out and intend to change things up a bit as time goes on.

My booking history is as below.

Y1 (6 months only) 1 wedding
Y2 5 weddings
Y3 16 weddings
Y4 24 weddings
Y5 25 weddings (relocated business)
Y6 38 weddings
Y7 (2013) 23 booked at present will max out at 35
Y8 (2014) 3 booked at present

I started out shooting weddings (and charging) with a 20D and 5D MKI and the 16-35 F2.8 L, MKII 24-70 F2.8 L MKI and the 70-200 F2.8 IS L MK1 and a couple of 580EX II's as my main kit. I also had a 100 F2.8 Macro and a few Sigma and Tamaron lenses as backups.

I upgrade my kit when there is a business case for doing so or when I want to expand what I can do creatively (e.g. wide apertures, fish eye, tilt shift)


Hey twin Brother:lol:

We are going to cut back a bit and try to get into the higher end of our market. So i made some decisions for 2014. One was that im not going to take on weddings that dont fit into the direction we want to go. No more VWF halls.Trying to get clients that have thought out ideas that are more in line with our business name and want to get out and take a more artistic approach and look....thats usually a higher end type bride. Always up for a great idea and a bride that want to get creative.

We Really respect and have learned a bunch from many on this forum. Our goal has always been to build the business to a point where we could replace my wifes current job. She makes a nice 6 figure income...the business is at that point after this season.

So,to maintain and increase our perceived value, im training with Cliff mautner this year and ive worked and trained with some top PPA instructors this off season. Picked up some really excellent advise and technique this winter and we are going to totally change the approach and look to attract those type of clients. We are marketing very similar to Jim Coleman and Tim agree with what you said,,less work on the table,,more attention to what we have,,better profit margins to justify what we do.

I would like to cut it off at 25 each year. It really depends on what we can do with the other areas of our business, specifically the HS senior market in my area.....Its saturated with newbs and everyone is marketing to what PPA has been teaching for the past 3-4 yrs......If HS senior market continues to slide, we will bump weddings to 30,,,,so lots going on for 2013 for us

Im frustrated with facebook. Feels like a necessary evil more than it does to a marketing tool for me......Pete very interested in what your doing. Im probably not using Facebook to its fullest potential but in my area,,every photographer out there saturates Facebook with what they do....I think clients look at it with a grain of salt and its becoming more like spam v/s attracting the clients that i want to attract.


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Corbeau
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Apr 25, 2013 10:05 |  #30

Quick question from an outsider: there's obviously a high and a low season for weddings. So is it just first come, first served for those key dates, or are your prices adjusted to reflect demand?


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Couple of questions for wedding pros.
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