7D Flash white balance question

Sorry - they were too big so I had to take another route.

As shot with Flash WB on camera - 2 external flash units, both Canon EX:

Titus213 wrote in post #15429445
If I switch from Shot settings to Color Temp it changes the WB to 5200K and the picture cools way down.

Dropping back to the camera neutral setting, my normal, cools it down from 7350 to 7100.

Just an FYI, higher numbers are cooler, lower numbers are warmer.

mnphotos wrote in post #15432109
Just an FYI, higher numbers are cooler, lower numbers are warmer.

Yup. But telling software that a shot was taken at a cooler colour temperature warms up the shot, which is what was meant. And vice versa, of course.

Titus213 wrote in post #15431674
And a side lesson learned - when using the 7D pop up to fire remotes it does indeed appear in the image, even when set not to fire for the image.

Of course. It has to trigger the slaves. But it's pretty weak.

mnphotos wrote in post #15432109
Just an FYI, higher numbers are cooler, lower numbers are warmer.

In post processing raising the WB temp warms the image. Lowering the number cools the image.

apersson850 wrote in post #15432373
Of course. It has to trigger the slaves. But it's pretty weak.

Yes, it is weak. I just didn't expect quite so pronounce a shadow from it. I was in pretty close with these and that lens is rather large.

But to my problem - if you set your camera to WB = Flash, what color temp do you expect?

When a compatible Canon flash is on the camera, it will communicate the color temperature of the flash tube to the camera, and the camera will set itself accordingly. Provided it's either set to auto or flash WB.
But now you are using the built-in flash, obviously, to trigger slave flashes, but you have turned off the internal flash (as much as possible).

Makes me wonder if here's an issue with the wrong color temperature being recorded when the internal flash is commander only? Do you have any ability to re-shoot with the internal flash also contributing to the illumination? I understand that this will ruin the appearance of the image, but for a moment let's put that aside and just see what happens to the color temperature. Or using an external flash as the commander, in the camera's hot shoe.

apersson850 wrote in post #15432762
When a compatible Canon flash is on the camera, it will communicate the color temperature of the flash tube to the camera, and the camera will set itself accordingly. Provided it's either set to auto or flash WB.
But now you are using the built-in flash, obviously, to trigger slave flashes, but you have turned off the internal flash (as much as possible).

Makes me wonder if here's an issue with the wrong color temperature being recorded when the internal flash is commander only? Do you have any ability to re-shoot with the internal flash also contributing to the illumination? I understand that this will ruin the appearance of the image, but for a moment let's put that aside and just see what happens to the color temperature. Or using an external flash as the commander, in the camera's hot shoe.

Good idea. I just took three images allowing the pop up to trigger two EX flash units and contribute to the image. All three, when brought into LR 4.3, show an 'As Shot' WB of 7350K. Putting that back to Daylight or Flash brings the WB down to 5500K.

I thought our light oak cabinets might be impacting the color but I shot a couple without them in the scene and the WB 'As Shot' is still 7350K.

Next step - I took the 430EX flash, mounted it on the camera and took a shot. Camera settings unchanged, WB = Flash.

The 430EX gave me a WB temp of 7200.

Next I did the same with the 550EX flash and got a WB Temp of 6400.

Unlike the shots combining the flash, these look pretty good temp wise.

One last test result to add - I shot the same scene with just the onboard pop-up. The WB temp is 7350.

Shooting the same scene with no flash and WB = Flash gives a WB temp of 6400.

You would think regardless of flash the camera would read the scene and set the white balance accordingly. Of course I don't get into the technical operations of the camera usually. I do know that I have never been very impressed with Canons Flash Performance. I shot a wedding two weeks ago and my white balance and Flash exposure was all over the place on everyshot. FORTUNATELY, I shot in Raw. Identical shots would be metered, or at the least flashed differently in some cases. I have read that Nikon is light years ahead of Canon in Flash photography and I believe it's entirely possible.. However I usually only shoot Wildlife and Scenery so metering available light is all I"m conerned with most of the time. AND that may be part of my problem. lol

Titus213 wrote in post #15432600
Yes, it is weak. I just didn't expect quite so pronounce a shadow from it. I was in pretty close with these and that lens is rather large.

Nikon has a panel that goes over their pop-up flashes and filters out most of the visible light. It works really well, but for close-up work I had to add a layer of white card (thickness of a business card) to fully eliminate light from the pop-up.

http://www.bhphotovide​o.com …_SG_3IR_IR_Pane​l_for.html

It would interfere with the micro switch in the hotshoe of Canon cameras, but maybe it can be modified to work.

I originally bought mine so that I could use my Sekonic light meter while using Nikon Creative Lighting System (CLS), which is pretty much the same as the Canon system you are using.

I keep finding more ways to check this. If I set my WB on the camera at Daylight and use a flash it registers as a temp of 5350 with a tint of +10.

Hitthespot wrote in post #15433102
You would think regardless of flash the camera would read the scene and set the white balance accordingly. Of course I don't get into the technical operations of the camera usually. I do know that I have never been very impressed with Canons Flash Performance. I shot a wedding two weeks ago and my white balance and Flash exposure was all over the place on everyshot. FORTUNATELY, I shot in Raw. Identical shots would be metered, or at the least flashed differently in some cases. I have read that Nikon is light years ahead of Canon in Flash photography and I believe it's entirely possible.. However I usually only shoot Wildlife and Scenery so metering available light is all I"m conerned with most of the time. AND that may be part of my problem. lol

You wedding issue is why I don't use AWB. I've always had much better results with Flash when using flash. Now I'm not so sure. Fortunately for me I don't do weddings any more but I don't recall having these issues. When shooting the formals I always used manual, custom WB, etc. and that worked fine.

I'm afraid Canon is trying to make the cameras too smart for us.

I may investigate going back to the old firmware version just for a test.

Well white balance was the least of my worries because i always adjust tweek when post processing anyway. What bothers me is the flash never seems to meter the same even on identical scenes. Ill have one close to normal and one very dark shot 10 seconds apart. I know there can be numerous reasons for this. However you cant always stop the action when doing events and say can you walk back down the isle again. I didn't quite get that shot . Its 2 stops underexposed. I guess my point is my experience with the 7d tells me that flash photography with it is inconsistent.