Exposure compensation in manual mode with auto-ISO

Hi, Something bug me big time on my new 6D. No exposure compensation in manual mode. Only in AV or TV. Using AV is a no go for me as the camera stupidly tend to favor a slow shutter speed (125-160 for a 135L) which give me a less sharp image and dont stop the motion.

Manual mode is not a real manual mode if auto-ISO is on. You need a way to compensate the exposure just like AV or TV. If you turn auto-ISO off, it's fine for 1 pict but not a full set. Auto-ISO is essential to compensate for the changing light.

Is there no workaround for this missing feature apart from turning auto-iso off? Is it the same for all Full Frame camera?

thanks

Unfortunately, that's the way Canon's Auto ISO works. It's one of the reasons I dislike Auto ISO and just don't use it.

What type of shooting are you doing? You should be able to shoot in pretty much any conditions without Auto ISO and get the same results as you would with Auto ISO, as long as you know what settings to change around. So, Tv or M, ought to be perfectly doable to maintain your shutter as long as there's an ISO and aperture setting to support it.

Earwax69 wrote in post #15445900
Hi, Something bug me big time on my new 6D. No exposure compensation in manual mode. Only in AV or TV. Using AV is a no go for me as the camera stupidly tend to favor a slow shutter speed (125-160 for a 135L) which give me a less sharp image and dont stop the motion.

The camera doesn't "tend to favor" a slow shutter speed, it simply adjust the shuter speed to get the "correct" (you now, if your scene really is 18% gray) exposure for the chosen aperture and the level of ambient light.

If you are getting slow speeds, you should amp up the iso or little wider aperture. Using the Manual mode doesn't changes anything, only the way you are adjusting the parameters.

Manual mode is not the way to go for changing lights situations. There the automated modes excels.

And, at last, Manual mode does have "exposure compensation"! You can control directly the two principals parameters of exposure, aperture and shutter speed, simultaneously.

No offense, but it seems to me that you are locked in the mindset where aperture and shutter speed only are means of aesthetic control. They are, but first they are means to control exposure.

P.S. Sorry for the broken english.

I don't have a 6D so I don't know how it works.

But a workaround I have found for shooting sports with my 1D bodies, is to shoot in Tv mode, set the shutter speed I want, enable iso safety shift and set a min aperture in the custom functions menus.

That way, I always have the shutter speed I need, and when the light drops to the point my min. aperture is reached, the iso safety shift kicks in to start raising iso. And I can still dial in exposure compensation since I am in Tv mode.

I don't know if that is all available in the 6D though.

Auto iso does work well on certain models like the 1d3 and onwards because you have enough settings available let to make it work. On other models you have to work around the shortcomings, like shoot in TV, set your lowest allowable shutter, set auto iso, set ec, and let the aperture float around.

I suppose there would be times when it would be useful to lock in both shutter speed and aperture and let the ISO float where it wants to automatically (and it makes sense that it would have EC, like the other auto modes do).... but frankly I never use Auto ISO. Av, P, and Tv are enough automation for me. I just change the ISO manually whenever I need to. I don't have 6D, but with my 5DII and 7Ds, after some practice I can change ISO without moving my eye from the viewfinder... it's nice that ISO is displayed in the viewfinder on the more recent models... it wasn't on earlier ones.

That would certainly fix my problem. I had posted this exact question last year about the t3i but there was no function for it. I'll search for the 6D.

I am. No shame about it. I bought a Full Frame cam that have excellent ISO performance to use it. Auto-ISO is a god send for someone who want to keep tight control on the aperture and speed while keep a fast shooting rate in changing lighting. Just to say, the t2i, t3i, t4i all have this function. You can compensate in manual mode no problem. I think it's just something that they forgot in the bigger models because the techs didn't use it.

I will of course follow your advice and try the AF and TV mode. If I can indeed put a minimum shutter speed, that will help. Would be even better if I could do it per lens.

Street photography, often low light. Shallow DoF. 35mm, 85mm, 135mm. I always prefer to stay over 1/300 for my shutter speed. I got a lot more keepers that way. I dont want to look at my metering each time I take a photo. I need to concentrate on the surrounding.

Actually the cam do it nicely. I just want to compensate when there's a backlight or some strong sun.

amfoto1: I used TV/AF in the past but took the habit of manual mode with auto-ISO when shooting Macro. You need precise aperture control to get enough DoF and very fast shutter speed to avoid shaking in macro.

Earwax69 wrote in post #15446412
...Just to say, the t2i, t3i, t4i all have this function. You can compensate in manual mode no problem. I think it's just something that they forgot in the bigger models because the techs didn't use it...

Sadly these rebels actually don't have this feature either. In M mode with auto ISO set, if you try to set the meter to the right or left of center, auto ISO will kick in to put it back to center on these cameras too.

Damn you are right. I just tried it. I guess I was using AF/TV. Embarrassing.

Well, I'll switch to AF to overexpose/underexpose or lock the ISO and do it manually which is just as fast anyway.

thanks! Solved.

amfoto1 wrote in post #15446382
I suppose there would be times when it would be useful to lock in both shutter speed and aperture and let the ISO float where it wants to automatically (and it makes sense that it would have EC, like the other auto modes do).... but frankly I never use Auto ISO. Av, P, and Tv are enough automation for me. I just change the ISO manually whenever I need to. I don't have 6D, but with my 5DII and 7Ds, after some practice I can change ISO without moving my eye from the viewfinder... it's nice that ISO is displayed in the viewfinder on the more recent models... it wasn't on earlier ones.

I do this all the time.
I set my shutter speed as fast as I need to stop motion of birds or other wildlife. Set my aperture at 5.6-7.1 for the DOF I need to get an acceptable amount of the creature in focus and let the ISO do its thing in auto. Its great (plus I can set my max auto ISO level) I do wish I could dial in 1/3 stop over of EC though. But I dont think I can.

I'm not really understanding. You don't consider manual mode truly manual if auto ISO is on. Exposure is affected by 3 things on the camera; aperture, shutter speed, and ISO. If you're in manual mode, you control all 3. Asking for exposure compensation therefore means you want a 4th component, which is not possible, or you give up control of one of the 3 things, which means you are no longer in "full manual".

But why is that a problem? With the ISO performance of the 6D, just slap on auto ISO with a set limit, and then set your aperture and SS to whatever you like. With usable 12800 ISO, there really is no problem leaving the 6D on auto ISO as it will be able to perform just fine in a whole range of different lighting situations.

If I'm misreading your post, sorry, but I'm actually quite confused with what the problem is.

Manual mode with auto-ISO on. If you shoot in that manner, you cannot do any exposure compensation. lowering the shutter speed will not let more light in as the camera will compensate by lowering the ISO. You are always stuck at the middle exposure (0).

It might not be big deal for most here but for those who think manual + auto-ISO is awesome like me, it's a real bother. We cannot overexpose or underexpose unless we change mode.

Why do we want manual mode with auto-iso? It's because you get total control on the esthetic qualities of your image (motion blur and DoF) while you let the camera compensate for light change by raising or lowering the ISO. That way you dont have to worry and can keep shooting without constently checking your exposure metering. You always get nicely exposed pictures. Very useful outdoor. And you can specify the maximum ISO to avoid noise.

Earwax69 wrote in post #15447050
Manual mode with auto-ISO on. If you shoot in that manner, you cannot do any exposure compensation. lowering the shutter speed will not let more light in as the camera will compensate by lowering the ISO. You are always stuck at the middle exposure (0).

It might not be big deal for most here but for those who think manual + auto-ISO is awesome like me, it's a real bother. We cannot overexpose or underexpose unless we change mode.

Why do we want manual mode with auto-iso? It's because you get total control on the esthetic qualities of your image (motion blur and DoF) while you let the camera compensate for light change by raising or lowering the ISO. That way you dont have to worry and can keep shooting without constently checking your exposure metering. You always get nicely exposed pictures. Very useful outdoor. And you can specify the maximum ISO to avoid noise.

Ok, now I see where you're coming from. I hadn't considered that as I never use auto ISO.

But if that is the problem, then why not use one of the modes that allows exposure comp? I know you said the camera chooses slow shutter speeds, but as Marcos pointed out, that is wrong, and shooting in manual even if it had exposure comp would not prevent that issue since the result would simply be you having to set a slower SS, manually (or boost the ISO, which you can do just as easily in AV mode).

This is a regular debate on POTN. The semi-automatic modes all got their names back in the days of film. Back then you had to change the sensor to change the ISO. So ISO was not considered a variable, although it could be changed. So now we have sensors where we can change the ISO at will, it has become a true variable. So the semi-automatic modes really need to be renamed. We should now have Av/ISO priority mode (shutter floats), Tv/ISO priority mode (aperture floats), which we do but they are of course still called Av and TV mode. Now of course as ISO is truly a variable we should have a new one Av/Tv mode (ISO floats). As this is a proper semi-automatic mode then we also need to have the ability to override the cameras metering system with EC. I know that some Pentax DSLR's do actually have the new mode on the main dial, IIRC they call it TAv mode.

Canon let us come close as you can select Manual mode, but turn on Auto ISO. This the only time Auto ISO seems to make sense to me anyway, apart from a FULL AUTOMATIC mode. If Canon would put the THIRD semi-auto mode on the main dial, all these "problems" would go away. Of course it may be Patent or other IP issues that stop Canon putting this fully implemented mode on modern digital cameras. It may be a blindingly obvious thing to do once you have ISO as a true variable, but I bet someone was still able to Patent that idea, even before a viable electronic imaging sensor was a reality in all probablity.

Alan