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Thread started 06 Jan 2013 (Sunday) 14:29
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MalVeauX
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Post edited over 5 years ago by MalVeauX. (5 edits in all)
     
Nov 11, 2017 10:02 |  #5926

Two Hot Shoes wrote in post #18493940 (external link)
Leaf shutters have a very high flash sync speed and that was great, but now with such great HSS available the need is really not there, in my mind. And as a plus, with the interchangeable cameras, we can sync to 1/4000(8000) with our aperture wide open and no ND filter needed. I like that the X100 series has a built in 3 stop ND and how quiet the leaf shutter is. But to shoot wide open with a clean exposure your speed is limited unless you use the ND. I think the x100 series is an interesting camera I still don't own one but I do love the idea behind it.

Yea, I already do HSS with my other system. It works. But it's clunky and requires extra stuff, or modern/expensive stuff to do it (especially HSS & ETTL together). Being able to sync without the light specifically having HSS as an option (because not all HSS is the same, some are long burn some are pulse, etc, and all of them you lose power doing it compared to standard output) means you actually have more output from your lights than you normally could have (not losing power by being in HSS, nearly gaining a stop of light back). So while yea we can buy interfaces that allow HSS to work, being able to have HSS without the light being capable of today's HSS is more interesting to me because you get the full power of your light that wasn't meant for HSS in the first place and you're not re-buying lights (which often cost more than these camera bodies!). Having a built in ND filter is great, there are other cameras with that too, I wish it was more common as an option, it's in the high end video stuff. Not having to fool with it as an extra thing to carry, one more thing to have multi-coatings to resist negative effects, one less thing to get dirty, one less thing to adapt, etc. Having a leaf shutter & a built in ND filter into the body is quite awesome for a camera body because again it allows you to use any lights in a very different way (suddenly your non-HSS lights are HSS capable). Sure, you can get all that stuff and not need this. But again, not everyone wants to replace all their lights from a few years ago, especially costly strobes. It's just a nice option to have. I definitely don't care to constantly fool with my HSS transceivers both on my lights, my camera, etc, more batteries to take, keep charged, etc, and of course the expense of buying all that in addition to the body & lights to begin with. My bullcrap $50 indoor studio strobes (Flashpoints) now sync at high speed with optical slave without buying a single thing to make it work (not that I need this, just the point of what I'm saying, my good outdoor 600Ws portable strobes and my indoor strobes, my manual speedlite fleet, etc, all do high speed sync without losing power and without the modality of pulse/longburn at 1/4000s if I want, without buying any additional things, really cool how it effects my whole system, and not just a specific bit of it).

Would love to have this feature set on an interchangeable lens body. But I realize that's not happening with these smaller format bodies, and seems to be reserved for the medium format and larger options. Not going there for cost. The X100 series gives you a taste of the simplicity of a larger format system with respect to lights and syncing, etc, in a way. Luckily I will never talk myself into a medium format system though. No way to afford that. I'd rather have a new boat! Lol. That and I'm sure I'd eventually get pissed at the slow AF of all the medium format digitals that are not $80K+. I live in a $500 camera world anyways! And then again, a newer medium format sensor, I'd be less likely to feel the need for lights probably in the first place, as that would be the point for me, to gain that zany dynamic range for outdoor shooting.

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EverydayGetaway
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Nov 11, 2017 10:33 |  #5927

Two Hot Shoes wrote in post #18493940 (external link)
Leaf shutters have a very high flash sync speed and that was great, but now with such great HSS available the need is really not there, in my mind. And as a plus, with the interchangeable cameras, we can sync to 1/4000(8000) with our aperture wide open and no ND filter needed. I like that the X100 series has a built in 3 stop ND and how quiet the leaf shutter is. But to shoot wide open with a clean exposure your speed is limited unless you use the ND. I think the x100 series is an interesting camera I still don't own one but I do love the idea behind it.

This is how I used to view the X100 too, but after trading my X-E2 for an X100T I get the hype.

HSS isn't the same as a leaf shutter, for one thing on the X100T I can sync at max even with the built in flash, which I've found useful on a number of occasions.

I also get a camera that's even smaller than an X-E2 with the same awesome VF as my X-Pro2 and a pretty awesome little fast 23mm lens built in.


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F2Bthere
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Nov 11, 2017 11:22 |  #5928

Leaf shutters are built into lenses, like the Fuji X100 series.

FUJI interchangeable cameras are electronically controlled and Fuji regularly updates the firmware.

So there is no technical reason why Fuji couldn't create leaf shutter lenses and update the camera to sensibly operate with them. You would probably want the option to use or not use the leaf shutter as appropriate, such as if you wanted themelectronic shuttter.

Given that even the Medium Format Fuji doesn't support leaf shutter lenses (yet?), it's sadly the case that Fuji isn't prioritizing leaf shutters so far. The lack of leaf shutter in the Fuji MF system was a bit of a surprise.


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F2Bthere
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Nov 11, 2017 11:37 |  #5929

Two Hot Shoes wrote in post #18493940 (external link)
Leaf shutters have a very high flash sync speed and that was great, but now with such great HSS available the need is really not there, in my mind. And as a plus, with the interchangeable cameras, we can sync to 1/4000(8000) with our aperture wide open and no ND filter needed. I like that the X100 series has a built in 3 stop ND and how quiet the leaf shutter is. But to shoot wide open with a clean exposure your speed is limited unless you use the ND. I think the x100 series is an interesting camera I still don't own one but I do love the idea behind it.

Profoto does not support HSS with Fuji. Elinchrom does not. I'm guessing Broncolor does not. Bowens never will. I'm guessing Paul Buff does not. Godox does, but for me, at least, I would need to buy new Godox gear. Just the fact that it exists on the market isn't the answer.

I already have an investment in strobe gear. And I use more than one system and sometimes use them combined. Leaf shutter handles all the options.

And, as mentioned, HSS wastes power.

I have 1100 WS of power, which is a sweet spot for dealing with bright sun. Godox doesn't (yet?) have such an option. Even if a HSS option becomes available for my unit, it will be less efficient and take it out of the sweet spot.

So, yes, for some applications there is good HSS. But if you already have an investment. Or if you want to operate using the full capacity of 1100 or 1200WS units (current maximum battery powered option, as far as I am aware) because you don't want to add a generator to your gear....

There is still a place for leaf shutters for today's professional photographer.


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Two ­ Hot ­ Shoes
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Post edited over 5 years ago by Two Hot Shoes.
     
Nov 11, 2017 12:01 as a reply to  @ F2Bthere's post |  #5930

Well I'm not saying anything anything bad about the x100 or leaf shutters. I think I said i like the idea behind it; a leaf shutter and a built in 3 stop ND. If you don't need your shutter to be stopping fast action you are set. And the usability of small or large lights is great with them alright.

But leaf shutters are limiting in a different way, the max speed of the shutter is limited.

Both Profoto and Elinchrom will have full Fuji support soon, I don't know about Broncolor. Stick two 600Ws strobes up and you have 1200Ws, I think Godox even make a 1200Ws head for a couple of AD600s to attach to.

You either buy a new camera and lenses(leaf) or new HSS strobes, either way you'll have to buy something to get your system up. Of course you could plonk on an ND filter to your lens to kill the light as well, I use a 6 stop. There are options, which is best depends on your point of view and use.

I'm sure HSS used loads more power, not a problem for me with the AD600 battery - it's rated for 500 full power pops, that is insane. And anyway power is cheep.

Remember the comments when the GFX was launched without a leaf shutter, but now all the lenses that can be used on it via an adaptor, that.

Also I'd imaging that the cost fo the lenses would rise, even more, if there was the extra expense of a shutter in it plus you'd be on electronic shutter with all your adapted lenses, on balance which would you choose.

Yes, if Fuji get the GFX to trigger leaf shutter lenses that would be good too for those who have them, I'm not holding my breath though on that one.


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Post edited over 5 years ago by DutchinCLE.
     
Nov 11, 2017 20:39 |  #5931

"Quick" long exposure test with my X-T20.. 13 minutes and 6 seconds.. almost no noise.
Not an interesting pic since it was a clear day, but I am happily surprised.

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Nov 12, 2017 01:52 as a reply to  @ Two Hot Shoes's post |  #5932

Two heads might work in an umbrella, but not in a beauty dish, sports reflector or most soft/octaboxes. In fact, it only works in relatively inefficient modifiers, which is counter to generating power output.

The Godox two-head solution apparently does not deliver double the power. And the 600 doesn't really deliver a full stop over the ad360. Don't get me wrong, Godox is great at what it does and is evolving faster than anyone else. But they are not playing at the top battery powered range, not yet, anyway.

Elinchrom and Broncolor seem to be holding it down at this point. :)

I do use the ND solution so far...


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Nov 12, 2017 08:39 |  #5933

My nephew at my brother's wedding, he was the ring bearer.

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My oldest sister and her husband. Hadn't seen them in 10+ years prior to this.

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My brother on his big day.

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Nov 12, 2017 08:43 as a reply to  @ F2Bthere's post |  #5934

At a 1/4 the price of a 500Ws B1 I'm not going to complain too much about the power of the AD600. I don't know how much output any of the lights I have output, the AD600 is a lot & I'd imaging the AD-H1200 would be much more. What mono gives you 1200Ws without a generator?


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Nov 12, 2017 10:25 |  #5935

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Nov 12, 2017 12:58 |  #5936

AD600 is perfect for my needs, I can illuminate a face easily then back it up for a full body shot without changing the modifier.

I don’t see myself needing the 1200 version yet, lol. Random fact I noticed Joel Grimes is now using the AD600 in his setups. He mentioned it’s easier to change the settings via the commander vs walking back and forth and he liked the hss. ;-)a


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Nov 12, 2017 13:38 as a reply to  @ Osa713's post |  #5937

Only once did I feel I needed more power, but just raised the ISO a stop and job done. But I'd still rather have too much than not enough.

Cold day around the playground, the take out coffee was very welcome.

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Nov 12, 2017 14:47 |  #5938

The testing of the 10-24 continues, a quick snap as we walked away from the playground of the sun setting behind the train station. Thinking I'm liking this lens for this kind of thing, must try to get somewhere a bit more picturesque soon.

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Nov 12, 2017 17:49 |  #5939

Anyone have experience with the following?

Samyang 10mm F2.8
Samyang 16mm F2
Samyang 21mm F1.4
Samyang 50mm F1.2

Those are the focal lengths that primarily interest me on all my systems.

I was just browsing around and realized Samyang had produced some fast primes for Fuji X mount which is really interesting. Most of what I do with my full frame (Canon 5D system) is done with manual focus, and some autofocus. With focus peaking on the Fuji system, I'm happy with manual focus over autofocus almost all the time because I'm just more comfortable with manual focus while composing and focusing based on what I want in focus and not fooling with the camera trying to figure things out. Especially with thin depth of field. I'd be interested to see how these lenses are wide open on a Fuji system like the X-T1 for example. The prices are outstanding. I've had Samyang primes are they were all very good. Just not sure how these stack up at F1.2 and the like.

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Nov 12, 2017 21:15 |  #5940

MalVeauX wrote in post #18494934 (external link)
Anyone have experience with the following?

Samyang 10mm F2.8
Samyang 16mm F2
Samyang 21mm F1.4
Samyang 50mm F1.2

Those are the focal lengths that primarily interest me on all my systems.

I was just browsing around and realized Samyang had produced some fast primes for Fuji X mount which is really interesting. Most of what I do with my full frame (Canon 5D system) is done with manual focus, and some autofocus. With focus peaking on the Fuji system, I'm happy with manual focus over autofocus almost all the time because I'm just more comfortable with manual focus while composing and focusing based on what I want in focus and not fooling with the camera trying to figure things out. Especially with thin depth of field. I'd be interested to see how these lenses are wide open on a Fuji system like the X-T1 for example. The prices are outstanding. I've had Samyang primes are they were all very good. Just not sure how these stack up at F1.2 and the like.

Very best,

I have the 21mm as well as the 12mm f2, and 85mm f1.4. I love all 3 lenses, absolutely stellar results.

The 12mm is by far my most used Samyang lens. It's really small, really light, and really sharp. The 21mm is all 3 as well (though a little longer/bigger than the 12mm), but it gets a little softer when focused closer to infinity wide open, stopped down a bit and it's sharp at all distances to my eyes. The 85mm is in Canon mount, because (like the 10mm and 16mm you listed) it's a DSLR designed lens so even in Fuji mount, it's the same size, so I just kept my Canon version and adapted it.

I've been thinking about getting the 50mm, but I might just spring for the XF 56mm instead, the low light AF ability would be useful in the events I shoot... I'm good at MF, but under stress I'm not sure I want to mess around with f1.2 at 50mm :lol:

If you check out the photo pages for the lenses you're interested in on Flickr you can find a huge pool of images and discussions for each. Surprisingly one of my images remains the header shot for the 21mm :)


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